afazio - Spiritual Authority

aron · 11-20-2018, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

That the Lord would send Ananias, a devout man according to law, to baptize Saul demonstrates His loving kindness toward us. It was actually this very act that opened Paul's eyes to see the reality of the Body of Christ that he wrote so much about about later.

So we wink and nod benignly, or remonstrate against hypocrisy and failure, depending on its suitability to our current arguments.

Drake · 11-20-2018, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron

So we wink and nod benignly, or remonstrate against hypocrisy and failure, depending on its suitability to our current arguments.

Sorry Aron,

I see neither hypocrisy or failure by the Lord sending a man devout in the law to baptize Saul regardless of the current argument.So perhaps I am not following your chain of thought.

Drake

aron · 11-20-2018, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

perhaps I am not following your chain of thought.

perhaps you are selectively following Witness Lee's thoughts.

James was wrong to hold forth on the "thousands who were zealous for the law" in Jerusalem? Why the double standard? Why do Paul and Ananias get a pass?

ZNPaaneah · 11-20-2018, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron

perhaps you are selectively following Witness Lee's thoughts.

James was wrong to hold forth on the "thousands who were zealous for the law" in Jerusalem? Why the double standard? Why do Paul and Ananias get a pass?

I think the word "wrong" is far too general. The idea of walking worthily of the Lord is in both the NT and OT. Denying the works of the flesh is also in the NT. The term "zealous for the law" can also have a psalm 119 connotation. So there is no doubt, having read Acts and Galatians, that James was in error, but being happy that there are thousands zealous for the law is merely the tip of the iceberg.

aron · 11-20-2018, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

...there is no doubt, having read Acts and Galatians, that James was in error, but being happy that there are thousands zealous for the law is merely the tip of the iceberg.

And Ananias, being equally zealous for the law, and attested to by the law-keeping Jews, wasn't also in error? Why did Paul cite this status approvingly before his accusers? Was Paul also carried away a la Galatians chapter 2?

ZNPaaneah · 11-21-2018, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron

And Ananias, being equally zealous for the law, and attested to by the law-keeping Jews, wasn't also in error? Why did Paul cite this status approvingly before his accusers? Was Paul also carried away a la Galatians chapter 2?

The New Jerusalem has 12 gates, people come from every direction. We are told that the Law was a child conductor to bring us to Christ.

Acts 22:12 can be translated "a pious man". I see no reason why being Pious is considered an error.

awareness · 11-21-2018, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron

Why do Paul and Ananias get a pass?

To the victor go the spoils. The winners write the history. That sort of thing.

Christianity started out Jewish. But that didn't last long. Paul soon came along, and the rest is history. There was an massive influx of gentiles converting to Christianity. By virtue of population the gentiles won out, and the Jewish Christians (James - Ebionites - Nazarenes) lost.

So I find it kinda funny that we gentiles are critiquing James. A little Chinese man putting down James. Now that's funny. The brother of Jesus no less. They grew up together. Ya can't get any closer to Jesus than that. He had to know him better than any of his followers, then and now. No wonder he thought he went loony ; 'my brother said what!?!'

James stayed a good Jew. Like his brother Jesus ; that followed God's law like no one else.

You don't like it? Take it up with Jesus.

A little Chinese man putting down James ...

aron · 11-21-2018, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awareness

A little Chinese man putting down James ..

Peter and John went up to the temple for the ritual prayers, in Acts 3:1. They were 100% within Judaism as it stood, there. Yet these two, who hadn't yet read Paul's treatises on grace, healed a man, and thousands believed.

Paul was writing to gentiles - he was a minister to the gentiles by his own admission (Gal 2:8). What he did minister, did not negate the spiritual experiences of others like James, Peter, and John.

Again, the issue was, and is, about imposition of alien values. Whether Jerusalem on Antioch (Assyrians), Western values on China, or Chinese ways on the West. The answer should be no, in every account.

Jesus loves every tribe, every tongue, every people, every nation. Those who want control try to efface them. If you don't know the difference you'll get fooled. Test the spirits, to see of what sort they are.

countmeworthy · 11-21-2018, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awareness

To the victor go the spoils. The winners write the history. That sort of thing.

Christianity started out Jewish. But that didn't last long. Paul soon came along, and the rest is history. There was an massive influx of gentiles converting to Christianity. By virtue of population the gentiles won out, and the Jewish Christians (James - Ebionites - Nazarenes) lost.

So I find it kinda funny that we gentiles are critiquing James. A little Chinese man putting down James. Now that's funny. The brother of Jesus no less. They grew up together. Ya can't get any closer to Jesus than that. He had to know him better than any of his followers, then and now. No wonder he thought he went loony ; 'my brother said what!?!'

James stayed a good Jew. Like his brother Jesus ; that followed God's law like no one else.

You don't like it? Take it up with Jesus.

A little Chinese man putting down James ...

Well LOOK at brother Harold..full of AWARENESS!!