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[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You wish to be accepted as an individual but I have to have an ilk. Why doesn't that seem fair?

If you would stop with the name-calling and accusations of idolatry, perhaps we could discuss the issues themselves.

The great US columnist Charles Krauthammer once noted this truth about contemporary political life in America: ‘To understand the workings of American politics you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil.’

Herein lies the problem. Conservatives see the Left having only stupid and failing ideas. Liberals see the Right as having evil intentions and motives, and being evil people. Since those on the Right are evil, they are labeled "racists, xenophobes, misogynists, homophobes, supremacists, fascists, etc." whether there is evidence or not. I constantly hear this from the media and the posts I read.

This dynamic prevents the discussion of ideas on their merits. It also becomes justification for using any means necessary. This is extremely unfortunate, as it seems to be pushing us towards riots and violence. If the Left continues this way, then fringes on the Right will react in kind. I hope not, not just because I abhor the violence, but because I know that those who do not support the 2nd Amendment will get the worst of it.

In politics the "discussion of ideas" should take place in Congress. That is our American system. If the results are not satisfactory, then too bad, wait for the next election. When ObamaCare came before the SCOTUS, as much as I hated that legislation, I agreed with Chief Justice Roberts -- the law was enacted in Congress, signed by the elected President, and so be it. Let there be higher taxes.

Personally I think "gridlock" in Congress is a good thing. It's only bad when the POTUS then feels justified to enact Executive Orders, and the Courts become activist agents for change.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If you would stop with the name-calling and accusations of idolatry, perhaps we could discuss the issues themselves.

The great US columnist Charles Krauthammer once noted this truth about contemporary political life in America: ‘To understand the workings of American politics you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil.’

Herein lies the problem. Conservatives see the Left having only stupid and failing ideas. Liberals see the Right as having evil intentions and motives, and being evil people. Since those on the Right are evil, they are labeled "racists, xenophobes, misogynists, homophobes, supremacists, fascists, etc." whether there is evidence or not. I constantly hear this from the media and the posts I read.

This dynamic prevents the discussion of ideas on their merits. It also becomes justification for using any means necessary. This is extremely unfortunate, as it seems to be pushing us towards riots and violence. If the Left continues this way, then fringes on the Right will react in kind. I hope not, not just because I abhor the violence, but because I know that those who do not support the 2nd Amendment will get the worst of it.

In politics the "discussion of ideas" should take place in Congress. That is our American system. If the results are not satisfactory, then too bad, wait for the next election. When ObamaCare came before the SCOTUS, as much as I hated that legislation, I agreed with Chief Justice Roberts -- the law was enacted in Congress, signed by the elected President, and so be it. Let there be higher taxes.

Personally I think "gridlock" in Congress is a good thing. It's only bad when the POTUS then feels justified to enact Executive Orders, and the Courts become activist agents for change.

Krauthammer was the founder of the Never Trump movement. I agreed with him on that. He was an agnostic Jew who claimed he was a better Christian than Trump. I believe him. I'll get back to you tomorrow on the other stuff.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Krauthammer was the founder of the Never Trump movement. I agreed with him on that. He was an agnostic Jew who claimed he was a better Christian than Trump. I believe him. I'll get back to you tomorrow on the other stuff.

The key here is "was." After Krauthammer saw Trump govern, he changed his attitude, and was no longer a "never-Trumper." I too went thru a similar journey with Trump. I did not vote for Trump in the primary. Like Krauthammer, many conservatives needed time to assess who Trump really was. Getting past the ego, Trump is one of the few politicians who actually intends to keep campaign promises.

Trump never ran as a "better" Christian. Unlike Obama, Trump did not falsely claim to be "born again." This returns us to the age old hypocrisy concerning the demands for morality in office. For years we were lectured to ignore Clinton's infidelities in lieu of "job performance." What saved Clinton cannot also clear Trump? Recent court developments even question the validity of old Trump affairs.

Think about Gillum as you answer!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Think about Gillum as you answer!

I don't vote in Florida, and have not seen any evidence that Gillum is guilty of fraud or theft, but I think his response about "not wrestling with a pig" is lame. You are running for office, there is an allegation of fraud in your position as mayor and there is an allegation of corruption in the city that you were mayor of. Responding that you don't "wrestle with pigs" because you will get dirty is pathetic. At the very least come out and say "not guilty". If you want, spice it up a little and say "fake news" you could even go so far as to call the media pushing this narrative "the enemy".

It is a valid question to ask anyone running for office and should be responded to in a way that clearly and emphatically denies wrong doing.

"My grandmother told me not to wrestle with pigs" is a deflection and indicates deceit.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I don't vote in Florida, and have not seen any evidence that Gillum is guilty of fraud or theft

You are running for office, there is an allegation of fraud in your position as mayor and there is an allegation of corruption in the city that you were mayor of.

Gillum has serious charges against him since they are made by undercover FBI agents. Of course he is not "guilty" of a crime without it being proven in the court of law. But as you know, the quality of the witness against one in court means everything. Ask Manafort. The IRS wants their money!

Personally I doubt that Gillum has not done anything that 80-90% of politicians have not done. Think about how politicians become so wealthy in office. Many are worth 10-100 times what their salary paid in office. How does that work? That's why I say that it is a given that all politicians are liars and crooks. That's like baseline morality. We build on that, good or bad.

Were Gillum a Republican, the media would be all over it. He would be publicly lynched. But as a progressive he mostly gets a free pass. If elected, will the DOJ file charges? They did against Menendez, and he may still win in NJ.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

"My grandmother told me not to wrestle with pigs" is a deflection and indicates deceit.

My grandmother told me not to lie or steal.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

My grandmother told me not to lie or steal.

Trump should have listened to your grandmother.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump should have listened to your grandmother.

If you were not so blinded by hate, I think you would see Trump as a forthright, results-oriented, and transparent President. As it is, you have lived off a media diet of biased fake news for years. Try to rationally analyze the accusations against Trump. Think about the Russian collusion charges which you bought into. After two years, they have nothing on Trump, so what do you think about all those who were so sure about him? Next think about the charges of white supremecy / anti semitism / fascism. No facts, but who cares? His daughter is Jewish. His support for Israel is second to none. But everyone seems to hate the guy so all mud-slinging is applauded. And celebrated in the media.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump should have listened to your grandmother.

That is fake news! There is no evidence that Trump ever talked to Ohio's grandmother.