The Psalms are the word of Christ

[VoiceInWilderness]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't know brother Voice. This hits close to home for me. You recently told me that I've lost my salvation. You don't know the half of it brother. Many years ago I once went around for a year or so saying that, God is deaf, dumb, and mute. Why? Because my conversations with Him were a monologue, as in, I did all the talking. If I had a life long friend, and I did all the talking, I would eventually conclude that he, or she, was deaf dumb and mute.

So I kind of understand Ruth Lee and Peace Wang.

I guess I've said enough for now.

Thanks Awareness, that was a good and thoughtful answer.

(My uncle just passed away peacefully yesterday, at 100 years old, so I'm in Baltimore for the funeral today.)

God's speaking to us is not like I am speaking to you and you to me.

When the Lord resurrected, He appeared to the disciples and told them that He was going before them to a certain mountain in Galilee.
Peter and the disciples go to that mountain, and guess what? - No Jesus. They waited probably for days, and no Jesus. So Peter, offended that Jesus did not keep His word, says, I'm going fishing. And you know the story of the Lord's appearing to them after they spent all night fishing and caught nothing.
The Lord had kept His word: He was there before them on the mountain in Galilee, but He was invisible, and seemingly not speaking. In this way, after His resurrection, the Lord spent 40 days with them, appearing and disappearing, training them to live by His invisible presence and still small voice. (This was one of the many great teachings of WL. I don't know if he got it from someone else, but that doesn't matter to me.)

Call to mind in your past when you had the Lord's speaking. Here are some examples that come to my mind of how the Lord spoke to me in various ways.

1. I could not tell if Jesus was God or not. I had just come to the church in Cleveland, and bros showed me verses showing that Jesus was God, esp. Isa 9:6, but I didn't feel they could explain other verses that implied that Jesus was not God. A bro invited me over for dinner, and after dinner we pray-read John 14. 2 bros were reading and shouting and rejoicing, and I felt, "This is not for me". Then a bro said to me, "Steve, your spirit's connected to your mouth." He was pointing for me to read v8 where Philip tells the Lord to show us the Father. For some reason I said, "Oh, since my spirit's connected to my mouth, I'll start with v1", not knowing what I was saying. When I spoke v1 "Let not your heart be troubled", I felt that the Lord was speaking the verse to me in my heart. My heart was very troubled because I felt that I could not be saved because I could not know if Jesus was God. Instantly my heart was not troubled, but a joy that I had never felt before rose up in my heart instead. Then I continued and the Lord kept speaking in my heart, "You believe in God, believe also in Me." I started laughing. It was so simple. I believe in God, believe also in Jesus. I understood, How could I believe in Him if He were not God. Then I continued, "In My Father's house are many abodes. If it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." I jumped up and we all started dancing around the house. On my way driving home, I was rubbing my heart, it felt so good. I told one of my frat bros, "What I experienced today was worth a whole lifetime of suffering."

2. I had just been saved and baptized for about 1 month. 4 of us had a daily evening prayer meeting at the fraternity house that I lived at. One of the bros started to become worldly, I thought. I was in a quandary how to help him. While walking quickly between classes, I thought, Eureka! I'll pray about it! When I got home to my frat room, I shut the door and prayed how to help this bro. Nothing from the Lord. So I said, Lord, here are 3 ways: I could rebuke him, or I could not say anything but be an example to him, or I could rebuke him in love. No answer. So I said, Lord, I feel the best about rebuking him in love, so that's what I'll do. And I heard a sound like a lion's roar. I jumped off my bed, and got down on my knees, and said, "What did you say, Lord?" I heard, "You change My words." And then, "Trust in Me, I will give you life." That was the only time I heard the Lord's voice externally.

3. I was typing my computer program on a keypunch. The computer room proctor was a little Jewish boy like me. I was praying for him to be saved, while I was keypunching. A big unkempt motorcycle gangster walked into the computer room smoking a cigarette. As the motorcycle guy was organizing his punch cards, the little proctor walked over, grabbed his arm and crushed out the cigarette, saying, No smoking allowed!, and then sat back down at his desk.
The motorcycle guy was enraged. He turned red and started charging at the proctor yelling, I'll teach you! I said, "Lord! What should I do?" No answer. So I just jumped up and got in the motorcycle guy's face, having no idea what to say. Then when I looked at the guy's face I knew exactly what to say. I recognized that I had preached the gospel to this guy before and he had told me he was a Christian. I yelled, "You're a Christian! What are you doing!?" He was dumbfounded and didn't know what to say. We became good friends, and he became a solid Christian.

4. I was reviewing a pile of about 30 resumes to narrow down to 5 people to interview. I saw one was an Arab name, and tossed it to the reject pile. Then the verse came to me, "You shall not despise an Egyptian because you sojourned in his land." I said, Wow, and I picked up the resume, and looked, and the guy was an Egyptian. I read over the resume again, and it was as good as the others on the "keep" pile. We hired him. He saved one of my projects that was failing which became a very successful project. He was one of the first immigrants that my company sponsored for a green card.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by VoiceInWilderness

(My uncle just passed away peacefully yesterday, at 100 years old, so I'm in Baltimore for the funeral today.)

Sorry to hear that. Hope he lived a full life.

Originally Posted by Voice

God's speaking to us is not like I am speaking to you and you to me.

I eventually learned that. But still. The Bible depicts God as audibly speaking ; like at Jesus' baptism. He's certainly couldn't be considered deaf, dumb, and mute, back then. He even spoke thru a burning bush ... and ... let's not forget, an ass. Don't I rate at least that? I feel like one at times.

Bro Voice, I really enjoyed your examples of the Lord speaking to you. And I noticed that God once spoke to you "externally." You obviously rate better than I. But didn't God have to speak audibly thru the ass because Balaam was so stubborn?

Maybe like Balaam, I'd hear God's voice if like Balaam I gave God push back. But I have. I've shaken my fist at God plenty of times. In fact, when my young son died I shook my fist and challenged Him to hurt me as much as he wanted, that I wasn't running from the devastating grief and pain of that loss, into some easy escape. It got me thru. There's way more story to it ... that's on going.

Thanks brother. It's always great to hear from you.

[JJ]

I wouldn’t worry about not hearing the Lord speak to me personally because he already has through His Son, apostles, and Spirit. It is more a matter of how I respond to the words he has already spoken to all of us.

God spoke that He is well pleased in His Son, that we should hear Him, and that He spoke to us in His Son. His Son is the radiance of His glory and the express image of His substance.
Luke 3:22 https://biblehub.com/blb/luke/3.htm
Matthew 17:5 https://biblehub.com/blb/matthew/17.htm
Hebrews 1 https://biblehub.com/blb/hebrews/1.htm

God sent His Son as the Word - we just need to behold His glory and believe in Him to have eternal life
John 1:1-14 https://biblehub.com/blb/john/1.htm

When we turn our heart to the Lord, behold and reflect Him, He transforms us into the same image as He.
2 Cor 3:16-18 https://biblehub.com/blb/2_corinthians/3.htm

God also sent apostles to speak God’s word to us. Hearing, believing, and being obedient to their word is the same as God’s word and causes us to enter into God’s rest. Such a word is living and active, divides soul from spirit and joints from marrow, and lays everything bare to the eyes of God the judge. Therefore, since we have such a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

God wants us to be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and without blemish; and esteem the patience of our of our Lord as salvation, grow in grace and in knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity.

1 Thessalonians 2:13
https://biblehub.com/blb/1_thessalonians/2.htm
Hebrews 4:2:7-16 https://biblehub.com/bsb/hebrews/4.htm
2 Peter 3:15-18
https://biblehub.com/blb/2_peter/3.htm

Keep away from any brother who leads an undisciplined life, not in keeping with the word heard from the apostles.
2 Thess. 3:14 https://biblehub.com/bsb/2_thessalonians/3.htm

God wants us to receive in meekness the implanted word (spoken to us by the apostles) and be doers of the word and not hearers only.
James 1:25 https://biblehub.com/blb/james/1.htm

John exhorted us to hear what the Spirit has spoken to the churches in
Revelation 2 and 3 http://biblehub.net/search.php?q=Let...he+Spirit+says

So, what me worry about God not speaking to me? No way. He has indeed.

I hope this is an encouragement when it seems that God is silent.

[JJ]

And, God has spoken to me many times and still does through the foolishness of men preaching concerning Christ and His Cross. However it is done I will respond by calling on His name and rejoicing

1 Cor 1:23 https://biblehub.com/blb/1_corinthians/1.htm
Romans 10:1-15 https://biblehub.com/blb/romans/10.htm
Philippians 1:15-18 https://biblehub.com/blb/philippians/1.htm

Even before and after that God spoke ands speaks night and day through His creation (even though I was initially ignorant to it for years!).
Romans 1:20 https://biblehub.com/blb/romans/1.htm

So, “God doesn’t speak to me” or “God sent me a text”. Lies from the enemy!

[VoiceInWilderness]

Originally Posted by awareness

I eventually learned that. But still. The Bible depicts God as audibly speaking ; like at Jesus' baptism. He's certainly couldn't be considered deaf, dumb, and mute, back then. He even spoke thru a burning bush ... and ... let's not forget, an ass. Don't I rate at least that? I feel like one at times.

We rate higher than Balaam. We don't want the Lord speaking to us through an ass. That would mean that we are lower than an ass. Balaam's end is not good.

Originally Posted by awareness

Bro Voice, I really enjoyed your examples of the Lord speaking to you. And I noticed that God once spoke to you "externally." You obviously rate better than I. But didn't God have to speak audibly thru the ass because Balaam was so stubborn?

I think God spoke to Balaam through the ass for our benefit.
Balaam, though he was a famous servant of God, was beyond correction.
I think the reason God spoke to me that one time in an external voice was because I was a new believer and did not have a Christian background. I have heard testimonies from Muslims who got saved that are similar.

Originally Posted by awareness

Maybe like Balaam, I'd hear God's voice if like Balaam I gave God push back. But I have. I've shaken my fist at God plenty of times. In fact, when my young son died I shook my fist and challenged Him to hurt me as much as he wanted, that I wasn't running from the devastating grief and pain of that loss, into some easy escape. It got me thru. There's way more story to it ... that's on going.

owee, ow, ow. I actually know how you feel. My beautiful son, Isaac, went to be with the Lord in Feb, 2016. It was a 7 year harrowing process. My wife would cry all night long. But the Lord was there. He was near me, and speaking through the word. What kept me going those 7 years was the Psalms. Down-to-earth, honest and holy templates for prayer.

Originally Posted by awareness

Thanks brother. It's always great to hear from you.

thanks bro

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

How did Brother Lee treat the OT? He opened it up thoroughly. As ZNP observed verse by verse. But you mean Psalms... well, I took your advice and thumbed through the RcV and on almost every page in the book of Psalms there are footnotes.

Now, granted these footnotes in Psalms are not extensive as you would find Brother Lee wrote in Ephesians, Hebrews, Matthew, Revelation, Romans, because frankly, there is much more concerning the dispensation we now live in those NT books than in the Psalms.

The gospels presented Jesus as the Messiah foretold by the ancient inspired writers. The Acts and epistles further this: Jesus is the promised Seed of David, who brought in a new age of human living under God’s care and providence. Now, “we do not yet see all things subject to him” (Heb 2:8; cf Psa 8 & 1 Cor 15), but nonetheless all attention focused on Jesus as the fulfillment of God’s promise to man.

So footnotes and/or teachings on the Christian Bible should focus first of all on the person of Jesus in the gospels as the fulfillment of God's expressed will; second on scriptures which the gospels cite (Psalms/Isaiah etc); third on the epistles as they're showing how the gospels and the prophetic word were harmonized in one person. Everything else in the Bible makes sense only as it points to and is derived from the great fact of "Jesus as Lord": the obedient Son of Man, crucified, resurrected and glorified. Our vision, our consciousness and living should be consumed by this. ~Luke 24:44 "He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." We never graduate from this: we only go deeper and deeper. He went through it- we go through it.

But in the RecV gospel of Matthew it's half footnotes and half text; Mark/Luke/John are less - 1/3 to 1/4 footnotes. The book of Isaiah is maybe 1/4 footnotes and the Psalms are maybe 1/8 footnotes; the rest text. Then if you look at the epistles, such as 2 Corinthians or Ephesians, you have anywhere from 2/3 to 3/4 of the page as footnotes. So clearly the focus is there.

In these lengthy epistolary footnotes there's a focus on abstract, impersonal concepts, such as "the dispensation we now live in" alluded to in the quote above; or the "NT believer enjoying grace"; or "mingled"; or "service" . . the actual person of Jesus is less important; who he was and what he did. And it’s even worse with the prophetic word: there, abstract concepts are levers used to denigrate swaths of scripture as “fallen human concepts”. Certainly not the verse-by-verse unveiling claimed by Drake. And, it cannot be over-emphasized, this is NOT what the NT writers and speakers did in regard to scripture. They never suggested this kind of treatment!

Now, the LSM apologist has a weak dodge here – “OK, smarty – why don’t you write some footnotes? Let’s see you do better” But we're not purporting to be God’s present oracle here; rather, showing why this particular claimant seems faulty. To whom much is given – ahem, ‘ministry of the age’ - much is required.

Then go from teaching to practice, to what's actually done in the LC, and there's even less connection with the Jesus of the gospels. For example, instead of a ministry of reconciliation, per 2 Corinthians, there are strong signs of a guanxi network. Run afoul of network hierarchy and there's no going back – no reconciliation. That's what we can see in the history of the LC. John Ingalls, John So, Bill Mallon, Max Rappaport, Titus Chu, Dong Yu Lan. . . a string of breaks and no mending. All were top lieutenants who ran afoul of the network culture. None came back. The culture won't allow it.

Or, where are the "good works" that Jesus did (Matt 4:23; 9:35; cf Acts 10:38)? "Oh, we're not a social service agency", says the LSM. What about Paul's focus on helping the poor (Gal 2:20)? "Well, we have a different emphasis". Indeed; and this different emphasis is also seen in the footnotes, or lack thereof.

I don't see the Bible being "opened up thoroughly" as Drake said; rather, a fallen human mind, building abstract sand-castles, and when the wind blows, any proverbial "rebellion" or "storm" or "turmoil", the edifice collapses: no reconciliation, tolerance, or forbearance. Just a holding onto abstractions - "God's economy" - but no love. How to be reconciled in such an environment? Only through abject servility; only by being subsumed to ministry ideals can one be reconciled with it. Even the Bible text itself is secondary to these ideals, not vice versa.