Discernment of spirits

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The problem with the "we need further tests" view is that 1 John 4:2-3, 1 Cor 12:3, 1 John 4:15 do not describe any further tests, nor do they say that these tests are not complete. It is only common sense that John or Paul would have said that the tests are not complete if they were.

There are further tests contained in 1 John 4. Read v 6 and 20-21 https://www.blueletterbible.org/nasb/1jo/4/1/s_1163001

v 6 includes "he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." So anyone not listening to the apostles' preaching (what is recorded in the Bible) is not from God.
V 21 includes "If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar

Evangelical seems to be alone in forcing us to use only three verses for discernment of what one says and is foolhardy to exclude the Bible and the old testament in particular! Dangerous! That's what got a lot of us into trouble in TLR. Run from such talk.

I'm done arguing this point any further.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by JJ

There are further tests contained in 1 John 4. Read v 6 and 20-21 https://www.blueletterbible.org/nasb/1jo/4/1/s_1163001

v 6 includes "he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." So anyone not listening to the apostles' preaching (what is recorded in the Bible) is not from God.
V 21 includes "If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar

v 6 is not really a "further test" it is part of 1 John 4:2-6. It surely refers to that already mentioned in 1 John 4:2-3. If we reject the apostle's first-hand testimony of 1 John 4:2-3 about Christ's having a human body then we have the spirit of error.

Originally Posted by JJ

Evangelical seems to be alone in forcing us to use only three verses for discernment of what one says and is foolhardy to exclude the Bible and the old testament in particular! Dangerous! That's what got a lot of us into trouble in TLR. Run from such talk.

I'm done arguing this point any further.

Using the OT for discernment of the New Testament Spirit of Christ is a bad idea and might lead one to works-based salvation and works-based discernment (the Pharisees evaluated Christ's and the disciple's works against the Old Testament to discern that He was not the Messiah). If the Old Testament was to be used in this case then John and Paul would have referred us to the OT in 1 John 4:2-3, 1 Cor 12:3, 1 John 4:15. They didn't.

Using the Old Testament for spiritual discernment will lead one down the path of Judaism, not Christianity.

Using "the Bible for discernment" is a cover for meaning we pick and choose whatever criteria we like from the New or Old Testaments, and use that to evaluate a person's spirit or ministry. This is none other than a self-driven method of discernment which is quite different to the simple tests proposed by the apostle Paul and John, which served them well in the problems with the gnostics and Judaizers in the early church.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Another LSM tactic: Keep fighting until the other guy walks away, and then declare victory.

People walk away when they run out of bible verses. He first presented unrelated scripture in Hebrews and Proverbs, then realized verse 6 might be "another test" even though it is part of the battery of verses I am presenting. Like an Old Testament Jew he would argue for the use of the OT for discerning Christ. Nowhere do John or Paul use the Old Testament for discernment.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

People walk away when they run out of bible verses. He first presented unrelated scripture in Hebrews and Proverbs, then realized verse 6 might be "another test" even though it is part of the battery of verses I am presenting. Like an Old Testament Jew he would argue for the use of the OT for discerning Christ.

Nowhere do John or Paul use the Old Testament for discernment.

Jesus Himself used the O.T. for discernment. Are you crazy? "Man shall not live by bread alone ..."

The O.T. is the foundation for the New. Even Lee said as much.

Have you left the LC like we told you to? Seems like you been quoting "Got Questions" a lot lately.

[byHismercy]

Ok, I have something to say about discernment of spirits. I have followed this conversation with a lot of confusion....I don't fully understand where Evang. is coming from or why he is insisting on limiting us to the verses of his choosing....forgive me if I am misunderstanding, Evan...

But regarding actual experience of discernment of spirits, the first ( I know now) I had it was at the moment of my conversion, the first I prayed, confessed my sin, repented and invited Jesus to come to me, be my Savior. By the grace of God I happened to have this moment in a streaming crowd of humanity, about 5,000 people who were flowing around the stadium that night, heading for the bart subway in Oakland, CA. All of them, including myself, hopped up on drug of every sort. When I received Christ that night, He gave me the Holy Spirit....and the camraderie of deadheads, music and drug loving people, suddenly vanished. The same sweet crowd that I had wandered amongst all night turned. It was ugly. There was jeering, food thrown at us, it became so nasty so fast. The Lord Jesus showed me right then that the culture I was wrapped up in was a facade....friendly faces became hateful sneers and I knew that the truth is, drugs are the Enemies' realm. The peace, love, acceptance was a lie of Satan.

Shortly after this, He made His presence known to me through a miraculous help....He didn't just save me into His kingdom then, but He actually saved me from my earthly dilemma....I was physically lost and I became found. This immediately after the sweet christian witness, whom He sent out that night, who invited me to pray and receive Jesus as my Savior, asked for a resolution to my situation. Literally the second after she wrapped up her prayer for me and said Amen. The peace of Christ came over my whole being and I was saved, safe, and marveling!! believe me, I was in awe....Jesus is alive! He cares about me! He came out to fetch me in my debased, selfish, wasting sinful humanity. The fact of it still makes me marvel. He came in. He has never abandoned me.

Since that wonderful moment, I have had other experiences where I can see demons manifest in people right before my eyes, and I know this discernment was given to me by the Holy Spirit, just as the word says. And, also, the more I study His word, searching the answer to (you name it) the question, the more He reveals, the more my eyes are opened to deceptions, particularly. All scripture is God breathed! All of it good for instruction in righteousness! All of it living and operative in those who believe! Every word good for correction! And all of it leading to more discernment....discerning sin(personally speaking), spirits, Gods' wisdom...

Most recently, the devil pitched a little fit the day I burned all that Lee ministry material....the night of that day, a demon came at me snarling, trying to terrorize me in my bed. Does anybody else notice how amped up spiritual attack becomes when the Lord gives you His view through scrioture, or the prayer is so wonderful, the time spent with Jesus so precious and revealing of Himself, that you are just left in awe of Him, in reverence of Him? My experience is the devil really gets upset. Ok, thats' all....

Except, Evan, you just might try not telling God what His word is good for and what it's not....see if just trusting all of His Word for all things changes your mind. What if you looked at Christs' title...the Word of God....and receive scripture in humility. I think you will find man made limits looking like foolishness...God bless us in this conversation....

[Ohio]

Great testimony byHismercy. Thanks.

While reading my eyes were opened to see all kinds of ways He has given us discernment. Just yesterday I was reminded by the devil of some shameful thing I had done 46 years ago. Right 46 years ago. Before I was saved, I had very little common sense. And I do mean very little! Just a dumb kid getting into trouble all the time.

Being dramatically born again all alone in my bed gave me my first dose of common sense. That was the Spirit of God living within my heart. I saw everything in life differently. I was not comparing things in my life with a few select verses, rather I had begun to walk by the Spirit. His gift to me of "common sense" could also be called the "discernment of spirits."

Today we do not walk merely by the Bible, but we walk by faith, we walk by His Spirit. Sure the Bible is vitally important, but our daily walk is not by the letters in a book, but by the Living One who is the Word. Praise Him!

[Nell]

Yes, byHisMercy, an excellent testimony.

Your words remind me of something Witness Lee actually said many years ago, when discussing discernment of "the real thing."

As you know, part of the mission of the United States Secret Service is investigating counterfeit US Currency. In their training, they do not study the myriad of currencies printed. They study THE REAL THING. They memorize it. They learn the intricacies and tiny details of genuine US currency. This makes counterfeit currency obvious. When you know what's real, you recognize a fake when you see it.

At this, Witness Lee encouraged us to know the Lord and in so doing, you recognize what is NOT the Lord. This actually helped me to recognize the signs when Lee himself began to go off the rails. It helped me to stand with what I knew to be true...what I knew of the Lord to be true. When you know what is true, you will be cognizant of the need to "try the spirits" when something seems "off". I began to see that Lee was contradicting the Word, and in many cases, his own ministry.

I think this is the essence of this verse:

1 John 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you[a] know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Nell

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Nell

Your words remind me of something Witness Lee actually said many years ago, when discussing discernment of "the real thing."

I love this, Nell. How true....knowing the living Almighty God shows all other gods for what they are, false gods. He is the only One, none before Him, none after. Simply meeting Him in person is the fulcrum point...

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

While reading my eyes were opened to see all kinds of ways He has given us discernment. Just yesterday I was reminded by the devil of some shameful thing I had done 46 years ago. Right 46 years ago. Before I was saved, I had very little common sense. And I do mean very little! Just a dumb kid getting into trouble all the time.

Right!? Me too, Ohio. I was the same. Foolish youngster. The best part of the common sense He gives us is the sense to seek Him, or His direction in our lives. Praise Jesus the Living, Almighty God, the Word!

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Ok, I have something to say about discernment of spirits.
....
Since that wonderful moment, I have had other experiences where I can see demons manifest in people right before my eyes, and I know this discernment was given to me by the Holy Spirit, just as the word says. And, also, the more I study His word, searching the answer to (you name it) the question, the more He reveals, the more my eyes are opened to deceptions, particularly.

Loved this testmony! I have had many similar ones.

I recall walking on a sidewalk 'window shopping'. I stopped to look at the 'bling blings' being displayed: Antique jewelry, hallmark like cards, etc... all seemed harmless enough. So I walked in to check out the store.

There was no one attending the store. It was empty and I supposed the attendant was somewhere in the back of the store.

As I am looking at some jewelry, I suddenly felt an overwhelming sense of evil croaching close to me. I stopped and looked around the store. As I looked behind me, the other side of the room was filled with witchcraft junk, tarot cards, astrology stuff, and even witchcraft books.

WOW!

I then walked out of the store, calling on the Precious and Holy Name of Jesus. Once outside I recall asking Him to wash me in His Blood and remove the dirt off me.

I never walked into that store again. I don't think I even got near that store ever!

I have had several experiences in which the presence of demons have been extremely strong. I always apply the Blood of Jesus and they immediately leave. Oh how there is POWER, POWER, WONDER WORKING POWER IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB.

Blessings to all.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

I have had several experiences in which the presence of demons have been extremely strong. I always apply the Blood of Jesus and they immediately leave. Oh how there is POWER, POWER, WONDER WORKING POWER IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB.

Yes, countmeworthy, how wonderful is His blood, how powerful. Incredibly, His blood shed sacrifice has the most awesome power to reconcile us to the Father! How amazing....I wish every human being could see the reality of the blood of Jesus, and trust....and yes, unclean spirits flee at the confession of His blood! So awesome.