Whistleblower

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

On a personal note, I have had a close family member confide in me about being raped by another close family member. It repulsed me to my core.

It repulses me to the core to hear about it.

I wonder if being female is a curse? I'm don't mean they are cursed for being female, I'm saying they're cursed because of men.

I can't tell you how deeply this disturbs me. Two little angels, 6 and 8 now, that I see when I see my grand children, are the sweetest little girls. A couple yrs ago I was asked to give one of them, the older one, a ride to my granddaughter's 1st birthday.

The two little girls live in Missouri. They were here for the party. Their mother was here with them. During the ride I asked the little girl where her daddy was, and she told me she didn't want to be with him. She then stunned me by telling me that he was touching her and her younger sister down here, and she pointed. This all came out when the little girls were caught doing it to a little boy.

That's why this disturbs me so deeply. It results in life long damage.

But this makes my point. That this sort of stuff happens everywhere, even in our families. Men have an appetite. Some can't control it.

I don't remember ever allowing it to flourish with the elders I knew in the LC.. I remember a gay issue in the c. in Detroit (Kangas lead). They didn't let it flourish when it happened. And there was one in Ft. Lauderdale. The elders knew about it, but they couldn't stop it. They did still allow the brother to lead the children. There's that. The brother eventually died of AIDS.

The only one that I know of, where LC leaders could be accused of allowing it to flourish was, Witness Lee and his sons. Philip and Timothy had a long history of it. As with the one John Ingalls got involved with, their dad wouldn't stop it. That was the beginning of the end for JI, cuz he was lead elder, and he certainly wasn't going to allow it to flourish. But by virtue of the private company LSM, Witness and his kids were outside the LC, and therefore outside the province of the elders. So the leader of the "Recovery" is the one that allowed it to flourish.

Originally Posted by Untohim

Maybe there's a reason why Eve didn't go to Adam when the serpent told her all those lies....maybe she didn't thing[k] that he would believe her
-

Maybe you see it differently, but in Gen. 3:6 I see that Adam was right there with Eve and the serpent, but apparently just watching ... and listening. In any case, Adam wasn't tending the garden, or eating from any of the other trees, or the right tree. He was clearly complicit with Eve and the serpent.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

The only one that I know of, where LC leaders could be accused of allowing it to flourish was, Witness Lee and his sons. Philip and Timothy had a long history of it. As with the one John Ingalls got involved with, their dad wouldn't stop it. That was the beginning of the end for JI, cuz he was lead elder, and he certainly wasn't going to allow it to flourish. But by virtue of the private company LSM, Witness and his kids were outside the LC, and therefore outside the province of the elders. So the leader of the "Recovery" is the one that allowed it to flourish.

In 1977 Max Rapoport confronted Philip Lee about sexual immorality and he was thrown under the bus.

In 1988 John Ingalls confronted Philip Lee about sexual immorality and he was thrown under the bus.

And you tell us that as long as Philip Lee works for a certain Book Publisher, he can get away with anything?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In 1977 Max Rapoport confronted Philip Lee about sexual immorality and he was thrown under the bus.
In 1988 John Ingalls confronted Philip Lee about sexual immorality and he was thrown under the bus.
And you tell us that as long as Philip Lee works for a certain Book Publisher, he can get away with anything?

Yes. It wasn't reported to the law, and the elders had no jurisdiction over LSM.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yes. It wasn't reported to the law, and the elders had no jurisdiction over LSM.

While technically true, the LSM was being operated and administered within the same building as the Church in Anaheim. (at least it was at the Ball Road location back in those days). Furthermore, and of greater importance, the abuse by Phillip Lee was perpetrated upon some sisters who, as members of the Church in Anaheim, were indeed under the "jurisdiction" of John Ingalls, Al Knoch and Godred Otuteye.

These brothers had every right and responsibility to look out for the well-being and safety of those sisters. Of course they found out rather quickly that Witness Lee had absolutely no care or concern for these sisters. He willingly and purposefully fed them to the wolf. And this was a wolf who had attacked the sheep again and again. AND WITNESS LEE WAS FULLY AWARE OF WHAT THE WOLF WAS DOING. But when you consider yourself the Acting God, Deputy Authority and Apostle of the first order, I guess you can justify anything.

For anyone to think that these abuses of sisters in the Local Church movement ended with the death of Witness Lee and his son Phillip, they are being just as deceived as those elders in Anaheim were 30 years ago. Movements of men based upon the person and work of a mere man are always and forever susceptible to the work of the fallen flesh of mere men. Fleshly men will always resist protections and safeguards put in place for the protection, safety and well-being of the most vulnerable in the flock....and this usually means women and children.
-

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yes. It wasn't reported to the law, and the elders had no jurisdiction over LSM.

Only in Nee/Lee's system of "THE WORK" do Lee and Sons escape all accountability and responsibility to the Elders and the church.

Why can't all Christians escape all guilt on this technicality? Just claim that you are a part of "THE WORK" and you can get away with anything. Right?

And thus we explain why Lee and Sons were never culpable for their crimes.

[Evangelical]

Don't forget that women rape men too. I don't think it has anything to do with the curse of man ruling over women.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Don't forget that women rape men too. I don't think it has anything to do with the curse of man ruling over women.

I can't believe you are claiming the rare exception of women raping men. How many Nun's have been accused of raping boys, compared to priests?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by awareness

I can't believe you are claiming the rare exception of women raping men. How many Nun's have been accused of raping boys, compared to priests?

No kidding. Doesn't it just make you want to scream "Stop! Please. STOP!"

Nell

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Nell

No kidding. Doesn't it just make you want to scream "Stop! Please. STOP!"

Nell

If I wanted folks to believe in Witness Lee’s movement, then yes STOP! Otherwise, it’s par for the course for that dude. Trolling maybe.... maybe something else....

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

I can't believe you are claiming the rare exception of women raping men. How many Nun's have been accused of raping boys, compared to priests?

Nuns could be complicit in the crimes? Congratulations to awareness for winning the "let's promote sexist stereotypes" award.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Nuns could be complicit in the crimes? Congratulations to awareness for winning the "let's promote sexist stereotypes" award.

It's not a stereotype that by far and away it's men that rape.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

It's not a stereotype that by far and away it's men that rape.

It is a stereotype if you link it to the curse in Genesis.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

It is a stereotype if you link it to the curse in Genesis.

I didn't link it to the curse in Genesis. I said men are the curse of women.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Don't forget that women rape men too. I don't think it has anything to do with the curse of man ruling over women.

This is bait.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Nell

This is bait.

Somebody needs to blow the whistle on this guy.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Nell

This is bait.

FYI this is a discussion forum. You can't label every comment you disagree with as "bait".

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

FYI this is a discussion forum. You can't label every comment you disagree with as "bait".

Uh. Actually I can.

If it's bait, I can call it what it is. But that's beside the point, isn't it? Even your "FYI" is bait, written to draw the conversation off topic. Which you have done. You accuse me of "whistleblowing" "every comment I disagree with" which is clearly wrong, and blatant "bait".



I haven't seen any posts about or by LC men being sexually abused by women in the LC. That would be on topic.

Otherwise, Stop! Please. STOP!

Nell

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Nell

I haven't seen any posts about or by LC men being sexually abused by women in the LC. That would be on topic.

Otherwise, Stop! Please. STOP!

Nell

The first post referenced Jerry Sandusky, Penn State, and the Catholic Church. All of those are examples of boys being raped.

All statistics suggest that boys being raped is equally prevalent.

You made this "on topic" when you tied the abuse of sisters to Biblical theology. Awareness tied it into Gen 3:6 in Response to UntoHim's comment and you built on that with a war against women by Satan.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Nell

Uh. Actually I can.

If it's bait, I can call it what it is. But that's beside the point, isn't it? Even your "FYI" is bait, written to draw the conversation off topic. Which you have done. You accuse me of "whistleblowing" "every comment I disagree with" which is clearly wrong, and blatant "bait".



I haven't seen any posts about or by LC men being sexually abused by women in the LC. That would be on topic.

Otherwise, Stop! Please. STOP!

Nell

The topic I was addressing was the topic that awareness and yourself introduced. See ZNPs post. If you wanted to discuss the curse with awareness and no one else to reply then I suggest you should have done that privately.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by awareness

...I wonder if being female is a curse? I'm don't mean they are cursed for being female, I'm saying they're cursed because of men. ...

You're close, Harold:
Gen. 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The serpent was cursed and that enraged him. So he retaliated against the woman.

Here's the way Jesse Penn-Lewis phrased it:
"Henceforth the story of the ages consists of the record of a war between these two seeds; the Seed of the woman--Christ and His redeemed--and the seed of the devil (See John 8: 44; 1 John 3: 10), right on to the furthermost point of the final committal of Satan to the lake of fire.

Henceforth it is also war by Satan upon the womanhood of the world, in malignant revenge for the verdict of the garden. War by the trampling down of women in all lands where the deceiver reigns. War upon women in Christian lands, by the continuance of his Eden method of misinterpreting the Word of God; insinuating into men's minds throughout all succeeding ages, that God pronounced a "curse" upon the woman, when in truth she was pardoned and blessed; and instigating men of the fallen race to carry out the supposed curse, which was in truth a curse upon the deceiver, and not the deceived one (Gen. 3: 14).

"I will put enmity between thee and the woman," said God, as well as between "thy seed and her seed," and this vindictive enmity of the hierarchy of evil to woman, and to believers, has not lessened in its intensity from that day."

Nell