Outer Darkness?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Weren't the works already lost in the burn test?

That's right, and the man himself was saved.

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

That's right, and the man himself was saved.

So in your opinion, how long does this burn test last? Is this the 1,000 years of outer darkness?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

So in your opinion, how long does this burn test last? Is this the 1,000 years of outer darkness?

No, they are different tests, but it shows that punishment for believers is not eternal. If outer darkness is eternal, then we cannot believe in eternal security.

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

No, they are different tests, but it shows that punishment for believers is not eternal. If outer darkness is eternal, then we cannot believe in eternal security.

How do we know the ones cast out to outer darkness are believers? Just because of the term "servant"?

[aron]

Hebrews 3 and 1 Corinthians 10 show us a journey with a finish line. A coming promised rest. We should press on until the journey is over. This notion seems widespread in Christian faith, not confined to the LSM (tho I appreciate their emphasis).

But I find a "thousand year finishing school" to be unsatisfactory because Moses "didn't make it" yet he is with Christ on the Mountain in glory, in the gospels. Maybe you give him a pass but I don't; he's the same as the rest of us.

My personal theology is "we see Jesus" a la Hebrews 2:8. He is the overcomer. Getting lost in subjective introspection is a house of mirrors.

The thief on the cross was promised to be with Jesus in Paradise. He never even got baptized! How could he get "mature"? And the story of Lazarus and the rich man is relevant. You think the first-century audience would discount it because "it's not a parable"?

And how pleasant is the "pleasant section of Hades" when you have a thousand years of torment waiting?

No, I suspect that one immediately deals with the consequences of one's actions. I know life is like that - why should the afterlife be different? The criminal immediately deals with the consequence of the crime - there is flight, hiding, lies and so forth.

Jesus made it across the finish line. Keep your eyes on Him. Never look away.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by A little brother

How do we know the ones cast out to outer darkness are believers? Just because of the term "servant"?

I don't know that anyone answered this, did they?

If you are asking regarding the three servants Jesus spoke of in Matthew 25, then yes, these are those who all knew the Lord. In verse 14 it says that the master called his own to him and they were all given talents. They were all aware that their master has gone away and would return. Two are faithful and show a profit to return to their master, and they are thereby praised and rewarded. The third servant had a skewed view of his master, feared him and was unfaithful. He received a rebuke, his portion was taken away, and he was cast into outer darkness.

How long was the unfaithful servant in outer darkness? It doesn't say.

[A little brother]

I am not sure whether I went too far. Like in the Old Testament, Nebuchadnezzar is called the Lord's servant. But he is not one of God's chosen people. So does a servant imply believer even though the Lord uses him?

Another example is Matt 24:45-51, the punishment of the evil slave was:
And will cut him asunder and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. In that place there will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

The hypocrites don't sound like believers to me and the evil slave was treated the same.

Also in Luke 12:46,
The master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, and will cut him asunder, and will appoint his portion with the unbelievers.

[Sons to Glory!]

Yes, those are all difficult passages, and thanks for posting them all in one place!

As for that last one, I think it's pretty easy to see it was a believer: He was a slave of the master; there is an element of expectation for his master's return; and his portion is appointed with the unbelievers. Saying that his portion was appointed with unbelievers is a contrast to something, namely he (the slave) IS a believer.

There are those who accept the Lord and go off and do wicked things, and never repent and come back. These would be evil ones. It would be hard to reward these ones anything at all! And would they be hypocrites? I think so,, in that they have received the new life and nature, but are not living in any way according to it.

So there appears to be something the Lord does to these ones that is much more severe than what we think would be appropriate for a believer . . . but He is the righteous judge.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by A little brother

I am not sure whether I went too far. Like in the Old Testament, Nebuchadnezzar is called the Lord's servant. But he is not one of God's chosen people. So does a servant imply believer even though the Lord uses him?

Have you ever read what incredibly wondrous things Jehovah says about the heathen Cyrus, King of Persia, thru Isaiah in Chapter 45 -- more than a century before it happened?

1.Thus says the Lord to His anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have grasped, to subdue nations before him and to loose the belts of kings, to open doors before him that gates may not be closed.
2. “I will go before you and level the exalted places, I will break in pieces the doors of bronze [gates of Babylon] and cut through the bars of iron,
3. I will give you the treasures of darkness and the hoards in secret places, that you may know that it is I, the Lord, the God of Israel, who call you by your name.
4. For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name, I name you, though you do not know me.
5. I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me,
6. That people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7. I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
8. “Shower, O heavens, from above, and let the clouds rain down righteousness; let the earth open, that salvation and righteousness may bear fruit; let the earth cause them both to sprout; I the Lord have created it.
9. “Woe to him who strives with him who formed him, a pot among earthen pots! Does the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’ or ‘Your work has no handles’?
10. Woe to him who says to a father, ‘What are you begetting?’ or to a woman, ‘With what are you in labor?’ ”
11. Thus says the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and the one who formed him: “Ask me of things to come; will you command me concerning my children and the work of my hands?
12. I made the earth and created man on it; it was my hands that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their host.
13. I have stirred him up in righteousness, and I will make all his ways level; he shall build my city and set my exiles free, not for price or reward,” says the Lord of hosts.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

How do we know the ones cast out to outer darkness are believers? Just because of the term "servant"?

They could be tares, is true. A genuine believer would most likely be profitable in even small things which are rewarded (Matthew 25:40). The small things we do without thinking anything of them, are considered by the Lord as being done unto Himself.