Doug Krieger testimony

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by JJ

Doug Krieger spoke and sold books at a conference in Sacramento early this year involving Henry Hon and several other Christian speakers. Here is a link to his authors page at Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/default/e/B00...KindleDbs=true

He also spoke at a conference in Denver and was videod https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cc-pULVULhs
This is just as an update on his current status, not a recommendation to read or not (I haven’t bought or read his books nor heard enough of his speaking to form a recommendation.

Wow - Henry Hon too?! I thought a lot of Henry and was around him more than I was Doug (since Doug so quickly got the boot after I came on the scene).

I looked at some of Doug's writings and other Internet things. Appears like he's very big on eschatology and trying to decipher biblical numbers. For me, I've lost my appetite for all the numbers. In the end, a bunch of knowledge like mostly produces a fearful response, and not a loving knowing of Christ Himself. I know several people who follow this sort of thing and my opinion is that it's one big snorkeling in the weeds/rabbit hole.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

I know several people who follow this sort of thing and my opinion is that it's one big snorkeling in the weeds/rabbit hole.

I went down his Tribnet 7000 Facebook rabbit hole for some time. It's fun down there, but ya haveta put up with a lot of funny characters ... and predictions of the end of the world, whenever the moon does something out of the ordinary, or some such ... or something aligns with the Hebrew calendar, specially holy days. Doug can work out the in-depth math until yer brain blows a 50 amp fuse. But it never works out in reality, it never comes to pass.

If only we could blow up the temple mount. Then we'd see Bible prophecy finally come to pass. That moon just won't do the trick.

[aron]

Stg, I finally figured out your moniker, remembering the ditty.

"Oh, the children of the Lord have a wondrous song to sing, for the the Lord will on that day many sons to glory bring."

I noted your friend's description of Doug as the "golden boy". According to his own testimony Doug brought in many, and in this he reminds me of two other LC "Timothys" who were similarly used then discarded. John I and Max R. Both were prominent in the work at one point, and lauded by WL as paragons of the recovery spirit.

Also liked the phrase, "as elated as an idiot at a street carnival". It aptly describes the sensory overload and feelings that follow. Shouting, chanting, yelling, arm-waving and fist-pumping, rocking back and forth, hopping up and down. Can you pass on this comment to your friend and either you or he comment further on the meeting atmosphere? I think "Berzerkely" may be telling us something.

WN was evidently affected by the "charismania" bug when he visited Elizabeth Fischbacher, who also travelled with him to England and transcribed his talks into English for CFP where his work began to circulate in the west. And of course WL followed suit, deliberately cultivating it to great effect.

[awareness]

Hey Doug's okay. I gave him some rough and tumble on Tribnet 7000, and he took it with grace. Just every now and then we jumped into the ring. Even then it was all in fun.

I only have interest in him at all because he falsely claimed that he started the c. in Santa Cruz, and I know better. Why lie about such a thing?

Turns out that Golden Boy has quite an ego, that he likes to puff up from time to time. And to him his Bible interpretation is unassailable. If you question it, you just might not be a friend ever again. He might have gotten that from Witness Lee. Bird's of a feather kinda thing.

[aron]

Originally Posted by awareness

He he falsely claimed that he started the c. in Santa Cruz, and I know better. Why lie about such a thing? Turns out that Golden Boy has quite an ego, that he likes to puff up from time to time.

Hard to miss the sense of self-aggrandizement in his account. But the part where he asked WL about the Antioch church controlling "all of them" I found shocking, actually; if WL did reply in the affirmative as DK alleges. What a reversal from the idea of localism! And WN also held this idea forth - in the FTOTCL? Brazen, if so.

Too ironic as Antioch is where Paul opposed those from James over the gentile issue, if Antioch then became the model for gentile control. That part where the two Dougs challenged WL over Nee's writing is the best part of the story (assuming it's corroborated).

[Sons to Glory!]

I recently got Doug Kreiger's email address from Henry Hon and sent Doug a message regarding my time in "Waring House" in Berkeley in 1974 (discussed earlier in this thread), which he and Doug Shearer were heading up (the "Two Dougs"). I asked him about the backstory as to why the house was abruptly disbanded and moved then to the LC in Sacramento. Here is his reply (I got his permission to post this):

good to hear from you - forgive me, but two months prior to our departure when we were "excused" from the LC I was somewhat in turmoil with Witness Lee and the leadership in Anaheim at the time. We asked the brothers in Berkeley - Dave Matteson, Jim Miller, Wiley Estabrook and Bob Huck if they had their druthers what would they prefer: For Doug Shearer and Doug Krieger to stay or leave - without hesitation they told us they wanted us to leave - thus ended my nearly 12-year stint in the LC - it truly was a God-thing and I praise the Lord I exited that ministry--and that's all it was, a ministry, but certainly was NOT an ekklesia experience as we understand that to be today because it was under the control and/or domination of one man, Witness, and now (apparently) under the so-called Blended Brothers.

The good news is that we reconciled (I did) eventually with Dave Matteson prior to his graduation to glory down in Avalon Beach--what a wonderful blessing that was - also had some terrific times with Matthew Ferrari down in SoCal prior to his passing. Seems like everyone I reconcile with passes away--be careful!

You've had quite the journey. Doug Shearer and I came back to Sacramento after we asked Witness Lee in the summer of 1974 some questions regarding Nee's text: FURTHER TALKS ON THE CHURCH LIFE. WL pointed out that when Nee wrote his text on FURTHER TALKS it was in counter distinction to the original vision found in the NORMAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH LIFE where the assemblies remained "independent in their administration--each answering to the Lord - but communion universal upheld in one accord" (as the song went). Nee reconsidered that position and determined that the MINISTRY was the center, the controlling agency of the Local Church move. Nee (with Lee highlighting on our behalf) used to Antiochian Model wherein when Paul and Barnabas went out from Antioch to Lystra, Iconium, Derby, etc. they preached the gospel, then folks got saved and began to meet in these places and then Paul/Barnabas went back and "pointed out elders" in these churches/assemblies. Then Lee/Nee asked the pregnant question: "Who was CONTROLLING these workers, churches, and elders of those churches?" "It seems that Antioch was controlling them" (said Lee to us from Nee's writing). Then Lee asked us: "What does the 'them' refer to?" Does "them" refer to the (1) Workers; (2) the Churches; or (3) the Elders of those Churches? Our answer was NONE OF THE ABOVE - the Holy Spirit, in the first place choose out Paul and Barnabas - they went out and simply established in their apostolic missionary endeavors these assemblies and they were NOT under some exterior control by the Church/Work based in Antioch. Lee vociferously replied: NO, not true, Antioch was controlling ALL THE ABOVE.

With that insight and adamant declaration on both Lee's and Nee's part I turned to Doug and said: "I think this conversation is over--the Local Church is nothing more than a form of Roman Catholicism and/or a heavy-handed denominational structure." We left and returned to Berkeley but word was sent to Berkeley that we were NOT in good favor with WL.

The brothers like Howard Higashi (who I had brought into the faith) and Mike Gordon (now living in North Bend, OR--and with whom I have, praise God, unhindered fellowship in Christ) came to me in Sacramento several years later when a Young People's Conference was going on in Berkley and said it was time for me to come back to the LC--I knew they were very sincere but I told both of them: "I will, but I need a white stallion upon which I will ride into Berkley in recognition of my Nepolonic return!" I cautioned them that what was going on in Berkeley was akin to Mao's "let a thousand flowers bloom" and then you can see who's with you and against you and then snuff them out who are against you--and that's what apparently and sadly happened - but that was the beginning of Mike Gordon's recusal from the LC.

Now, what I see is simply this: Lee simply had a ministry which controlled all of his "churches" - after I left the "ministry" became the be all and end all--if one was not ONE WITH THE MINISTRY you were "out of the flow" - suspect and, frankly, in some form of rebellion--that's where Bill Freeman found himself and, actually, many others, including DeVern Fromke, Gene Edwards, Lance Lambert, Don Morsey, Wayne Butchart, Karl Hammond, Titus Chu, and so many more--some of whom took Lee's way of a "controlling ministry" which I now call "a controlled burn" - whereas Henry and I have no intention of creating some kind of "controlled burn" - more like a wildfire would be better!

I've written a book entitled SO YOU WANT TO DO EKKLESIA? You should get it on Amazon--it's a fun read and sort of gives our experience here in Sacramento as an ekklesia-style meeting.. As you can see we do have other groups in our area--we should reach out to them and have to some extent in conferences and what not but need to circulate a whole bunch more to enjoy the greater Body of Christ. I swore in my haste that I'd never join myself to one ministry again--so, I'm involved in 4 ministries--haha! Word to Russia; Urban Hope Alliance; One Body Life; the Commonwealth of Israel Foundation and then I do my own writing (there's just not enough on my plate!) - I allot time to all of them just to stay in shape! As Nancy Pelosi says: I've learned to walk and chew gum at the same time! I know, horrible quote, but at my age--pressing 79, I can just about quote anyone and get away with it.

Here's my Amazon Book page--have at it!

https://www.amazon.com/Douglas-W.-Kr...rwt_scns_share

Looking forward to our Zoom call!

Bro. Doug

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by aron

Stg, I finally figured out your moniker, remembering the ditty.

"Oh, the children of the Lord have a wondrous song to sing, for the the Lord will on that day many sons to glory bring."

I noted your friend's description of Doug as the "golden boy". According to his own testimony Doug brought in many, and in this he reminds me of two other LC "Timothys" who were similarly used then discarded. John I and Max R. Both were prominent in the work at one point, and lauded by WL as paragons of the recovery spirit.

Also liked the phrase, "as elated as an idiot at a street carnival". It aptly describes the sensory overload and feelings that follow. Shouting, chanting, yelling, arm-waving and fist-pumping, rocking back and forth, hopping up and down. Can you pass on this comment to your friend and either you or he comment further on the meeting atmosphere? I think "Berzerkely" may be telling us something.

WN was evidently affected by the "charismania" bug when he visited Elizabeth Fischbacher, who also travelled with him to England and transcribed his talks into English for CFP where his work began to circulate in the west. And of course WL followed suit, deliberately cultivating it to great effect.

Sorry, bro, but I saw him at breakfast this morning and he sent me an email - he simply said, "enough all ready." I guess he is done talking about Doug K. (He certainly is one of the more colorful brothers among us these days, and I often get a kick out of many of his sayings!

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by aron

Stg, I finally figured out your moniker, remembering the ditty.

"Oh, the children of the Lord have a wondrous song to sing, for the the Lord will on that day many sons to glory bring."

Oh, yes, I do remember that song! I actually was thinking of Hebrews 2:10 (which the song quotes).