Was Witness Lee a Calvinist?

Evangelical · 07-01-2018, 05:29 AM

In the story of Philip and the Ethiopian, found in Acts 8:30-35.. which was more important and resulted in the Ethiopian's edification, the fact that the Ethiopian had a Bible and was reading it or the fact that he had Philip to guide and explain it to him?

The importance of Philip as a guide, is even more emphasized by the fact that the Holy Spirit arranged for Philip to act as the guide.

I think what most Christians get wrong is that they think there is something special about learning the Bible but in reality it is not too different to learning english or math or science. It requires time, hard work and diligence. They probably send their children to school, to learn by having a teacher explain things to them, English, Math etc. They don't expect them to learn math for example by reading a textbook on their own. Same with the bible. So in most churches even the ones that use the bible exclusively, they quote scripture to each other without much understanding of what the scripture means, unless they themselves have studied it at home for themself using some sort of study guide. And that is why edification is not merely using the bible alone word for word, but explaining and applying it to the particular situation at hand.

Trapped · 07-02-2018, 09:33 PM

Regarding Acts 8:30-35 as an example of using guides for edification:

1. Edification concerns believers. The Ethiopian was not yet a believer.

2. What resulted in those verses was not the Ethiopian's edification, it was his salvation. Once he got saved, then edification can begin. The guide here is for salvation.

3. The Ethiopian's words were "How could I unless SOMEONE guides me?" Here we have the "to each other" that I mentioned previously. This was a one-on-one human guide. Probably most believers have been brought to salvation through another person. There is no "study guide" in these verses.

4. Yes! As you said, the Holy Spirit arranged for Philip to act as the guide. Not a publishing house who's material you must get into whether or not it meets the particular, aching needs of the dear saints in your church currently. The Holy Spirit!

Regarding the rest of your post, you said, "And that is why edification is not merely using the bible alone word for word, but explaining and applying it to the particular situation at hand." This can be done by and among the people gathered. It does not require Witness Lee's presence in printed form to be the only one providing an explanation.

I'm not saying using a guide is a problem or is wrong. I think we all have received help from study guides, both LC-ministry books and non-LC-ministry books. All I am saying is:

1) the Bible alone is sufficient for edification (a % of which can be individual with a larger % being corporate), and
2) study guides are more than fine as long as ANY helpful study guide is welcomed, and the use of only one man's study guide is not made the basis for fellowship or acceptance in the ways I've mentioned previously.

least · 07-02-2018, 10:28 PM

Adding to the points -

5. The Lord God wanted the man of Ethiopia, an eunuch, to be saved and be baptised. The Spirit sent Philip to him. The Ethiopian said he needed guide to understand the particular portion of the scripture. The portion about Jesus being the Lamb of God for man's salvation. Philip preached Jesus to him (recovery version: announced Jesus as the gospel to him).

The Ethiopian said: here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. Philip baptised the Ethiopian eunuch.

And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Philip preached Jesus as the gospel and Philip baptised him who have believed.

note:
The Spirit did not require Philip further talked about how God is neatly boxed in 'The Economy of ...' ....

Evangelical · 07-02-2018, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

Regarding Acts 8:30-35 as an example of using guides for edification:

1. Edification concerns believers. The Ethiopian was not yet a believer..

Whether the edification is unto salvation or for further spiritual improvement does not matter - the function of the Spirit is the same. The need for human guides is the same (teachers, pastors, etc).

Edification means improvement (to our spiritual situation). The Ethiopian experienced an improvement to his spiritual condition so it can be considered an edification.

This is also supported by personal experiences - any person who becomes saved needs further instruction and "discipleship" (as they call it) to grow properly. A person is no more knowledgeable about the Bible after salvation than before salvation.

Trapped · 07-04-2018, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Whether the edification is unto salvation or for further spiritual improvement does not matter - the function of the Spirit is the same. The need for human guides is the same (teachers, pastors, etc).

Edification means improvement (to our spiritual situation). The Ethiopian experienced an improvement to his spiritual condition so it can be considered an edification.

This is also supported by personal experiences - any person who becomes saved needs further instruction and "discipleship" (as they call it) to grow properly. A person is no more knowledgeable about the Bible after salvation than before salvation.

In my last post I included a portion that mentioned considering salvation as the first step in the process of edification, but deleted it as the fact remains they are two separate things, even if one is "unto" another. The dictionary definition of edification is improvement, yes, but on the spiritual side edification is to make us suitable for coordination and enable us to be built together with others. It is improvement for the purpose of building.

You mention human guides, but the original discussion at hand was study guides in a corporate meeting. I also would not read Acts 8:30-35 and come away with the thought that it supports the importance of study guides over the Bible. The important thing (or one....there are many in that passage) is Philip's following the Spirit's prompting!

As I have said several times, I am not against the use of a guide. I don't think we are necessarily disagreeing on that.

07-01-2018, 05:29 AM	#1
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Re: Was Witness Lee a Calvinist? In the story of Philip and the Ethiopian, found in Acts 8:30-35.. which was more important and resulted in the Ethiopian's edification, the fact that the Ethiopian had a Bible and was reading it or the fact that he had Philip to guide and explain it to him? The importance of Philip as a guide, is even more emphasized by the fact that the Holy Spirit arranged for Philip to act as the guide. I think what most Christians get wrong is that they think there is something special about learning the Bible but in reality it is not too different to learning english or math or science. It requires time, hard work and diligence. They probably send their children to school, to learn by having a teacher explain things to them, English, Math etc. They don't expect them to learn math for example by reading a textbook on their own. Same with the bible. So in most churches even the ones that use the bible exclusively, they quote scripture to each other without much understanding of what the scripture means, unless they themselves have studied it at home for themself using some sort of study guide. And that is why edification is not merely using the bible alone word for word, but explaining and applying it to the particular situation at hand.

07-02-2018, 09:33 PM	#2
Trapped Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 1,523	Re: Was Witness Lee a Calvinist? Regarding Acts 8:30-35 as an example of using guides for edification: 1. Edification concerns believers. The Ethiopian was not yet a believer. 2. What resulted in those verses was not the Ethiopian's edification, it was his salvation. Once he got saved, then edification can begin. The guide here is for salvation. 3. The Ethiopian's words were "How could I unless SOMEONE guides me?" Here we have the "to each other" that I mentioned previously. This was a one-on-one human guide. Probably most believers have been brought to salvation through another person. There is no "study guide" in these verses. 4. Yes! As you said, the Holy Spirit arranged for Philip to act as the guide. Not a publishing house who's material you must get into whether or not it meets the particular, aching needs of the dear saints in your church currently. The Holy Spirit! Regarding the rest of your post, you said, "And that is why edification is not merely using the bible alone word for word, but explaining and applying it to the particular situation at hand." This can be done by and among the people gathered. It does not require Witness Lee's presence in printed form to be the only one providing an explanation. I'm not saying using a guide is a problem or is wrong. I think we all have received help from study guides, both LC-ministry books and non-LC-ministry books. All I am saying is: 1) the Bible alone is sufficient for edification (a % of which can be individual with a larger % being corporate), and 2) study guides are more than fine as long as ANY helpful study guide is welcomed, and the use of only one man's study guide is not made the basis for fellowship or acceptance in the ways I've mentioned previously.

07-02-2018, 10:28 PM	#3
least Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 174	Re: Was Witness Lee a Calvinist? Adding to the points - 5. The Lord God wanted the man of Ethiopia, an eunuch, to be saved and be baptised. The Spirit sent Philip to him. The Ethiopian said he needed guide to understand the particular portion of the scripture. The portion about Jesus being the Lamb of God for man's salvation. Philip preached Jesus to him (recovery version: announced Jesus as the gospel to him). The Ethiopian said: here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. Philip baptised the Ethiopian eunuch. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. Philip preached Jesus as the gospel and Philip baptised him who have believed. note: The Spirit did not require Philip further talked about how God is neatly boxed in 'The Economy of ...' ....