The Not-So Practical Expression of the Church

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Igzy

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My assertion in this argument is not that the local ground teaching is true or false, but rather that it is not viable. It is one of the boasts and selling points of the teaching that it produces a "practical expression" of Christ’s Body for the world to see. My assertion is that it can only hope to do that by insisting on assumptions which are arbitrary and thus ultimately sure to cause contention and eventually division.

Igzy, I do believe it's viable but unlikely. It would require believers alike to set aside their ministrial preferences and pride.
Theoretically there can be the practical expression of the church, but in order for it to happen there cannot be on emphasis on the ground of locality teaching. As church history has shown, with each doctrinal teaching, division is a symptom that follows.

When I read Witness Lee's The Practical Expression of the Church, I see something remarkable. For this vision to become reality, there needs to be application. One quote in particular that struck me was:

"We must know how to deal with these two kinds of believers-this is the fellowship. We must know how to fellowship with the saints in the different denominations including the Roman Catholic Church, and we must know even more how to fellowship with the believers who are standing on the proper ground to fight the battle for the Lord's kingdom." Page 120

Where is this kind of fellowship I am sad due to the fact whether you're in the denominations or in the local churches, fellowship is related to the organizational ministry your church receives. The type of fellowship I see from the above quote is organism in nature as we are all members of the Body. A type of fellowship that rises above restrivtive walls that ministries and assemblies tend to create.

Terry

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Terry

Theoretically there can be the practical expression of the church, but in order for it to happen there cannot be on emphasis on the ground of locality teaching. As church history has shown, with each doctrinal teaching, division is a symptom that follows.

What is "a practical expression of the church"?

I ask the question because it seems that there is very little in scripture that is concretely about "church" per se, but a whole lot about how the believers that constitute the church should live, act, behave, etc. Further, is there anything in scripture that defines what is required for there to be "a church"?

Part of the reason that I ask is that if there is an assembly of believers, what is it that makes one assembly "not church" and another assembly "church"? Does being like the LC make them church and others not church? Or is it the RCC way? Or the way that you suggest? What makes one church and the other not church?

If they are church, then they are a practical expression of the church. To say that they are church (or "a church") but are not a practical expression of the church means what? That they are church but are impractical? This is contrary to the laws of non-contradiction. If they are a church, then they are a practical expression of the church. You may try to define them as not an ideal expression. But if they are not a practical expression of the church, then they are not a church.

The very question "who is a practical expression of the church," besides being a contradiction, is itself sectarian because is presumes to dismiss those who do not meet your definition of "practical expression." But they are all a practical expression. Just as were the various churches mentioned in the New Testament. They were not alike in many ways. Of the 7 written to in Revelation, they had extreme differences. But they were all churches, therefore all practical expressions.

So it is absolutely irrelevant that some church has an emphasis on baptism by immersion, another on miraculous gifts, and yet another on the presbytery. If they are church, then they are practical expressions of the church.

[TLFisher]

This following word is not mine, but from a fellow believer,

To talk about "local church"

According to Brother Nee, "Rethinking the work" principle, from God's perspective, only one local church in various places. Established according to the local church, not the mouth that he is, nor is it registered with the government is not recognized do not know that "local position" principle. From God's perspective, the local church is established according to the Saints as long as that place, that place there is the local church. Christians all in one place, in that local church. Whether he know this principle, regardless of his on the non-implementation of this principle, in the eyes of God, his church in that place; as long as he still live in the ground, where he was part of his local church. All had at that place "their gathering," the saints, and not because the "local church" does not belong to the establishment of local churches.

Having said that, we can apply, in Taipei, Taiwan belong to the local Christian church. Taipei has many local churches, "their gathering": There are Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Church gatherings of Taipei, Mandarin Chapel, Ling Liang Church ... there are many famous anonymous groups; in God's eyes, they all belong to the Taipei District Church. So, when we started the middle of the so-called local churches, in principle it can be said that the establishment of local churches, can only say that there is a group to see "local position" lessons, start "their gathering." To put it bluntly, why should the "local position" contention? Because whether you agree not recognize "local position" of the lesson, you are accepted by God. So, Brother Lee passed away before the fishes with the worker said, "You go where the position is not about my co-workers." Will also say, not in the basic beliefs, the truth and the practice of criticizing others.

"If the foot says, I am not a hand, so I do not belong to the body, it can not therefore not part of the body and if the ear says, I am not the eye, it does not belong to the body, it can not therefore not part of the body." (I Corinthians twelve 15 to 16)

We compared the above verses the following sentences.

If someone says you are not "local church" and therefore not part of the body, you can not therefore not part of the body. If you say, I'm not "local church" and therefore not part of the body, you can not therefore not part of the body.

So do not say that others, even you yourself said you do not belong to the body, you can not therefore not part of the body.

"Not to give up our own together, as if some people used the same, down to encourage one another; both saw the day approaching, so much the more." (To ten 25)

So we can not go start another "local Church", because all of them at the local church. Therefore, we can find a group of people who are willing to seek the truth together with "their gathering," perhaps we are not "local Church" party, but we still belong to the local church, the body belongs to, or accepted by God.

Back to topic

God does not care whether the local church failed to even God has failed to allow the local church congregation. You can not see in the Bible that God will restore to the church where the winning condition. So, if someone wants to build a victory local church, that he is not God in the pursuit of a goal set. But, but you can have a group of believers who are willing to become a victorious start with "their gathering", and then hope that victory was put together, this is definitely pleasing to God.

God's goal is to get the winner. If your church is a winner, you go to another church or a winner. Otherwise, even with the victorious church, and you just name only, in which, you will not go along with the victorious; if so, to become "one will win, you and I go to heaven," teaching.

Since God does not care where you meet God, how you will care about where the breaking of bread (the first few posts in the home can be added); God is not only concerned about your winner.

Enoch is the first one to mention the people who were raised to complete the will of God is man. He was the first winner, but in the end he did what? He is ㄧ a walk with God by, meet the heart of God and taught his children were so. In addition, God does not care that he did anything on the ground. Today, God only care about you in the spirit with him, colleagues, fellow workers, the same music, same worries, with God, appreciate him, love him; These are "living in the spirit of" purpose. If so, you are God's winner. To put it bluntly, Brother Nee for the Lord's recovery to restore what is simple and clear, not to restore a lot of interpretation, nor is it to restore the life of the church do this and that is to simply put people back to the before God to do with God, but also to teach children to live in God, let God satisfied.

Today, some groups will talk with a bunch of Farfetched, is to use "split body" bullying tactics scare you so that you obediently continue to be subject to his hijack. Do not care about people's intimidation, to care and you are not a recognized winner of the implementation of the will of God, but also to help others become the winner. It is important to learn to promise to help children to become winner, so you are not afraid of how your child's future.

[OBW]

Terry,

That was virtually impossible to understand. If you understand it, can you edit it into reasonable English?

[UntoHim]

Terry, I assume the original is in Taiwanese or Mandarin. Could you please point us to the original? Maybe somebody can find a better translation machine to put this through. Except for the fact that we know the context, this is virtually unintelligible. It is obviously written by somebody who is/was affiliated with the Local Church in Taiwan.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Terry

To talk about "local church"

According to Brother Nee, "Rethinking the work" principle, from God's perspective, only one local church in various places. Established according to the local church, not the mouth that he is, nor is it registered with the government is not recognized do not know that "local position" principle. From God's perspective, the local church is established according to the Saints as long as that place, that place there is the local church. Christians all in one place, in that local church. Whether he know this principle, regardless of his on the non-implementation of this principle, in the eyes of God, his church in that place; as long as he still live in the ground, where he was part of his local church. All had at that place "their gathering," the saints, and not because the "local church" does not belong to the establishment of local churches.

Having said that, we can apply, in Taipei, Taiwan belong to the local Christian church. Taipei has many local churches, "their gathering": There are Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Church gatherings of Taipei, Mandarin Chapel, Ling Liang Church ... there are many famous anonymous groups; in God's eyes, they all belong to the Taipei District Church. So, when we started the middle of the so-called local churches, in principle it can be said that the establishment of local churches, can only say that there is a group to see "local position" lessons, start "their gathering." To put it bluntly, why should the "local position" contention? Because whether you agree not recognize "local position" of the lesson, you are accepted by God. So, Brother Lee passed away before the fishes with the worker said, "You go where the position is not about my co-workers." Will also say, not in the basic beliefs, the truth and the practice of criticizing others.

As I understand from the writer, what we North Americans were ingrained with concerning WN's ministry is not so. Probably the best mirror to WN's ministry is to listen to Stephen Kaung. Best to disregard concepts taught regarding "the ground". As I understood from the first paragraph, the ground is where you live. It's not referencing a specific assembly receiving a specific ministry.
Getting to the second paragraph as I understand, suppose the city you live in, there are many churches/assemblies. All are local churches. Read the excerpt from the above quote:

"Taipei has many local churches, "their gathering": There are Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Church gatherings of Taipei, Mandarin Chapel, Ling Liang Church ... there are many famous anonymous groups; in God's eyes, they all belong to the Taipei District Church."

What the writer termed as "local position", I would define as "the ground" or in Exclusive Brethren terminology, "the one place". As the writer had asked, why should this teaching issue in contention? As the writer goes on to say,
"whether you agree not recognize "local position" of the lesson, you are accepted by God". This refers to Romans 15:7 (Therefore, accept one another, just as Christ also accepted us to the glory of God.)

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Terry

"If the foot says, I am not a hand, so I do not belong to the body, it can not therefore not part of the body and if the ear says, I am not the eye, it does not belong to the body, it can not therefore not part of the body." (I Corinthians twelve 15 to 16)

We compared the above verses the following sentences.

If someone says you are not "local church" and therefore not part of the body, you can not therefore not part of the body. If you say, I'm not "local church" and therefore not part of the body, you can not therefore not part of the body.

So do not say that others, even you yourself said you do not belong to the body, you can not therefore not part of the body.

"Not to give up our own together, as if some people used the same, down to encourage one another; both saw the day approaching, so much the more." (To ten 25)

So we can not go start another "local Church", because all of them at the local church. Therefore, we can find a group of people who are willing to seek the truth together with "their gathering," perhaps we are not "local Church" party, but we still belong to the local church, the body belongs to, or accepted by God.

Many of us can identify with this portion from the email. How many times in the so-called recovery has a brother or sister been treated as if they're not part of the Body via disfellowship, quarantine (aka excommunication)? Many times not because of a gross sin, but simply by being politically incorrect. The Recovery as we know is very Politically Correct oriented. If you don't "lineup", this is where 1 Corinthians 12 becomes a constant point of reference.

Now to the last paragraph from the above quote. As I understand from the writer, saints can always gather together. Just because they may not meet as the Local Church, they are still part of the local church.