Does "Baptist" Mean to a Baptist What "Recovery" Means..

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

I think you are most vigorously objecting to the word, "crime" right? I will admit that this may not be the most appropriate word. ByHisMercy, I'm guessing, is using that in a way to illustrate and emphasize how strongly they see the things which happened to them. "Crime" may be a bit inflammatory, but it is conveying a strong emotion.

Am I right ByHisMercy?

BTW - I found the Nee booklet after some searching.

You may be right that "crime" is inflammatory and not the best word. I do my best to express myself and I am open to others ideas...my intention was not to inflame emotions! That being said....we are being punished most certainly by the saints here...if there was no crime committed...which there was not....we are certainly receiving the harshest form of chastisement. People we love very much, who also claim to love us, will not receive us, nor any communication from us, nor respond in any way when we try to remain in peace and reconciliation (and that of Christ!) with them. This is most surely their best attempt to get us to obey their ultimatum to meet with the Lee ministry, and that alone. My excommunication came about very swiftly after I let them know that we were seeking another assembly, closer to home, outside their group. I personally would have never cut off contact with the saints we were close with...there would always be an open door for any believer, no matter the assembly, distance...I see no reason to separate....I truly believe in the one body! One Spirit, one Lord, one Father....there is no justification for division here. There is no gross ongoing life of living in sin here, there is absolutely no scriptural justification for their dividing from us, or me from them. I know of a very dear couple who felt led to come to this locality a few years ago...I knew them from the C in Diamond Bar, they left their grown children to come and bless the LC here, they were treated very poorly and sent on their way after not many months. This brother loved the Lord and was very much a blessing to me..they both tried to talk to me about what they went through here but I was so ignorant at that time of the real practices of the LC....I was no help to them. Now I can guess what they must have experienced. Withdrawing love, fellowship of Christ, communication...this is cruelty in Jesus name...I will never believe this is the operation of the Holy Spirit...rejection and that game, that is Satans realm, that is Satans game.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

You may be right that "crime" is inflammatory and not the best word. I do my best to express myself and I am open to others ideas...my intention was not to inflame emotions! That being said....we are being punished most certainly by the saints here...if there was no crime committed...which there was not....we are certainly receiving the harshest form of chastisement...

Wow - sounds a lot like the Amish practice of shunning.

Your signature says you're from the NW, but are you talking Ohio here?

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Wow - sounds a lot like the Amish practice of shunning.

Your signature says you're from the NW, but are you talking Ohio here?

No, I've never been that far east. The Church in Diamond Bar and the Church in Huntington Beach are both in southern CA. I currently reside in the pacific northwest but we are seeking transfer to get out of Wa. The residual bad taste this region left in our mouths has all come from relationships and trust betrayed by the LC here....we cannot wait to leave this area. My children, myself, and my spouse....we are leaving as soon as it is practically made possible. It is no small matter to be duped by people you think are following the truth and Jesus. My trust in the saints has been rocked to say the least. I don't think I can ever be blind to deviation from Gods word in an assembly again, praise Jesus. I won't be silent if I encounter such deviation in the future. I wish the LC could be witness to the damage their actions do....they very effectively are looking the other way, however.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

No, I've never been that far east. The Church in Diamond Bar and the Church in Huntington Beach are both in southern CA. I currently reside in the pacific northwest but we are seeking transfer to get out of Wa. The residual bad taste this region left in our mouths has all come from relationships and trust betrayed by the LC here....we cannot wait to leave this area. My children, myself, and my spouse....we are leaving as soon as it is practically made possible. It is no small matter to be duped by people you think are following the truth and Jesus. My trust in the saints has been rocked to say the least. I don't think I can ever be blind to deviation from Gods word in an assembly again, praise Jesus. I won't be silent if I encounter such deviation in the future. I wish the LC could be witness to the damage their actions do....they very effectively are looking the other way, however.

If by chance you come Scottsdale way, look me up! There's a good number of recovering Recovery saints here, who just love Jesus!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

You may be right that "crime" is inflammatory and not the best word. I do my best to express myself and I am open to others ideas...my intention was not to inflame emotions! That being said....we are being punished most certainly by the saints here...if there was no crime committed...which there was not....we are certainly receiving the harshest form of chastisement. People we love very much, who also claim to love us, will not receive us, nor any communication from us, nor respond in any way when we try to remain in peace and reconciliation (and that of Christ!) with them. This is most surely their best attempt to get us to obey their ultimatum to meet with the Lee ministry, and that alone. My excommunication came about very swiftly after I let them know that we were seeking another assembly, closer to home, outside their group. I personally would have never cut off contact with the saints we were close with...there would always be an open door for any believer, no matter the assembly, distance...I see no reason to separate....I truly believe in the one body! One Spirit, one Lord, one Father....there is no justification for division here. There is no gross ongoing life of living in sin here, there is absolutely no scriptural justification for their dividing from us, or me from them. I know of a very dear couple who felt led to come to this locality a few years ago...I knew them from the C in Diamond Bar, they left their grown children to come and bless the LC here, they were treated very poorly and sent on their way after not many months. This brother loved the Lord and was very much a blessing to me..they both tried to talk to me about what they went through here but I was so ignorant at that time of the real practices of the LC....I was no help to them. Now I can guess what they must have experienced. Withdrawing love, fellowship of Christ, communication...this is cruelty in Jesus name...I will never believe this is the operation of the Holy Spirit...rejection and that game, that is Satans realm, that is Satans game.

I read your post and I feel like I'm back in the church in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, back in 1980.

All these years -- decades actually -- on opposite coasts, across America, and the local church's of Witness Lee are still the same.

But ... I can't call it the "c" word ... cuz bro Ohio hates it when I do that.

Thanks byHismercy, for sharing that ... I think ... they really aren't fond memories. It hurts when Christians you've had loving fellowship with turn their hearts off toward you. I was left wondering, whatever happened to I Corinthians 13 kind of love? "The greatest of these?" The local church certainly doesn't have it. They have a Matthew 5:47 problem.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I read your post and I feel like I'm back in the church in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, back in 1980. All these years -- decades actually -- on opposite coasts, across America, and the local church's of Witness Lee are still the same.

We must be careful with the descriptions we use on others. Otherwise these terms become meaningless. Descriptors have to accurately and fairly characterize the group. Without doubt the LC's are a denomination with their headquarters at LSM in Anaheim. We can say that they are an exclusive and elitest Christian sect. We can also say that many of their leaders are abusive. So I would characterize the LCM as an abusive and exclusive elitest Christian denominational sect.

Perhaps you can improve on this.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

So I would characterize the LCM as an abusive and exclusive elitest Christian denominational sect. Perhaps you can improve on this.

I believe that's an accurate description of the LCM. We might improve on it by identifying the mechanics involved, to match them up to the mechanics in those considered undeniable cults, to see if they match up.

I've read a lot of books and materials on cults. Cuz of my LCM experience I'm drawn to them. I'm actually in awe of them. I don't get why people join them. Like this latest one that's been in the news, Nxivm, where women give themselves to the leader, and are branded like cattle, with his initials, slowly with a soldering iron like tool. Why would they join?

Your characterization is spot on. But it's a mouthful. It would be cumbersome in conversation to banter about. The word cult encapsulates it ... and it's simple ... easy to use in conversation.

But if I classify the type of cult the LCM is I'd have to call it a soft cult. It's not a hard cult like Jonestown, Heaven's Gate, Waco -- death cults -- and prolly Scientology. It's more like a soft cult, like the Mormon's, and the JW's.

That's why I call the LCM a personality cult. That's undeniable.