Christ or faith the Savior?

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The difference? We call on the name of the Lord Jesus. They don't. Perhaps the name of Jesus is 'just another name' like Hare Krishna to you.

It seems you think of God as "just another person".

So do the disciples of the Hindu yogi, Paramahansa Yogananda, however they do not call themselves Christians. They do not believe Jesus Christ is the one and only Messiah yet also call on or recite his name through a practice called "Jesus prayer meditation". It is considered "practicing presence".

The issue is that scripture says there are many Jesus' (2 Corinthians 11:4) and along with accepting a different Jesus comes a different spirit.

Does merely reciting the name of Jesus validate the practice along with the resulting effects? How do you know you are communicating with the Jesus of scripture and not another "Jesus"?

So you must not think we can pray in our hearts? Do you believe prayer must be audible?

Does repeating a mantra in your "heart" then justify this practice?

Even so, the practice in question is the 5x "Oh, Lord Jesus" and it is an audible one.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Jo S

So do the disciples of the Hindu yogi, Paramahansa Yogananda. They also call on or recite the name of the Lord Jesus through a practice called "Jesus prayer meditation". It is considered "practicing presence".

The issue is that scripture says there are many Jesus' (2 Corinthians 11:4) and along with accepting a different Jesus comes a different spirit.

Does merely reciting the name of Jesus validate the practice along with the resulting effects? How do you know you are communicating with the Jesus of scripture and not another Jesus?

Does repeating a mantra in your "heart" then justify this practice?

Scripture does not say there are many Jesus's. It says there is only one:

1 Cor 8:6 But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life.

Because there is only one Jesus, if we use the name of Jesus only one Jesus will respond (if He wants to). The unique name of Jesus
became evident in Acts 19:17 "And fear fell upon them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was extolled."

Even a Hindu, or a Buddhist, or Muslim can call upon the name of the Lord and be saved. Remember that Abraham followed and called upon the Lord while technically still a pagan (he was called Abram at that time) (Joshua 24:2). Abraham could have been a yoga master for all we know, practicing yoga and chanting to "God" when the real God responded.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Scripture does not say there are many Jesus's. It says there is only one:

"For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough." (2 Cor 11:4)

"Another" connotes more than one. Paul seems to think there is more than one Jesus' being proclaimed. Does Paul contradict himself against the rest of scripture?

Because there is only one Jesus, if we use the name of Jesus only one Jesus will respond

In Matthew 7:22, those individuals performed miracles using the name of Jesus Christ yet the Lord said he did not know them. If then Jesus didn't know them and they could not have had the Holy Spirit then by what spirit did they perform the miracles?

If a different spirit other than the Holy Spirit can respond to the name of Jesus, why then do you say only Jesus will respond by using his name when that's not scripture?

If a different spirit can respond to the name of Jesus, how then can you determine which spirit is responding to an individual through a practice like chanting the Lord's name?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Jo S

"For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough." (2 Cor 11:4)

"Another" connotes more than one. Paul seems to think there is more than one Jesus' being proclaimed. Does Paul contradict himself with the rest of scripture?

2 Cor 11:4 is in contradiction with 1 Cor 8:6 only if 2 Cor 11:4 means there is more than one Jesus. The only way to resolve this contradiction is to re-interpret 2 Cor 11:4 or 1 Cor 8:6, and I suggest that it is easier to re-interpret 2 Cor 11:4 than 1 Cor 8:6.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I suggest that it is easier to re-interpret 2 Cor 11:4 than 1 Cor 8:6.

How then would you interpret 2 Corinthians 11:4? What does Paul mean by "another Jesus"?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Jo S

How then would you interpret 2 Corinthians 11:4? What does Paul mean by "another Jesus"?

In the Greek...

Another Jesus means the one and only Jesus but preached in such a way that it gives a different impression of the one and only Jesus. That is..it means a perversion of the only Jesus, not that there are more than one.

Also see Gal 1.6-7 where after Paul says 'another gospel' clarifies that there really is no other gospel.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Another Jesus means the one and only Jesus but preached in such a way that it gives a different impression of the one and only Jesus. That is..it means a perversion of the only Jesus, not that there are more than one.

I agree.

If the people that Paul is referring to in 1 Corinthians 11:4 were trying to give a false impression of the only one Jesus, it follows that they were still retaining the actual name of Jesus in their preaching of this different gospel.

Why would Paul be admonishing the Corinthians of receiving a different spirit if as you say "the only one Jesus will respond" when using his name? Doesn't this imply a different spirit other than the Holy Spirit is acting through the preaching done in the name of Jesus?

So then, if a different spirit can be imparted through the preaching of another Jesus, all while still using his name in the process, can't a different spirit respond and give a false subjective impression to an individual through a practice such as chanting when using the name of Jesus?

How would you know either way?