Latter Rain, Kingdom Now, & the Lord's Recovery

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Theocracy? I don't think so but if you have a link to this 10 year scheme I'd like to read into it.

Brother Jo S, I hate to tell you this, but ... if all you got to relate the Recovery to Christian Dominionism is the preparation of the bride for the return of the bridegroom, and that to you is Dominionism, then Christianity is covered up with Dominionism.

This idea of preparing the bride for the return of the bridegroom has been used to scam unsuspecting and gullible believers for millennia.

Present example, right now it's the biggest Christian movement in China, I've read. That's because it works well on those trapped in a dreadful life, who are looking for a better life, and the idea of a new heaven and a new earth sounds like a way out of their dreadful life.

And it's big money. Harold Camping, for instance, made 95 million on promising the return of Jesus. It didn't happen.

Face it, Witness Lee used the bride prep to scam everyone ... and LSM is still doing it.

Please show me in scripture where it's specifically developed that we're told to prepare the bride for the return of the bridegroom. Then I might give this return of Jesus scam a fair hearing.

Until then, buyer beware, or believer beware.

And by the way, I can't remember where I got that Lee believed the LC could take over the whole world in 10 years. It might be on LCD somewhere, or I could have gotten on the old Bereans forum. Needless to say, Lee had all the math worked out on it.

I looked to see if I had it saved on my hard drive, but didn't. Others out here might be able to help us with this.

Thanks for this thread brother. Let's see where it goes.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by awareness

Brother Jo S, I hate to tell you this, but ... if all you got to relate the Recovery to Christian Dominionism is the preparation of the bride for the return of the bridegroom, and that to you is Dominionism, then Christianity is covered up with Dominionism.

The body being the "bride" doctrine and believing certain overcomers will restore what Satan usurped from God are justifications for dominionism, not necessarily evidence.

The extra-biblical belief that Christians need to be organized in a one church per city model is the evidence.

This meant Lee had the great ambition to have an LC in every city on the entire planet. If that's not dominionism then I don't know what is.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Jo S

The body being the "bride" doctrine and believing certain overcomers will restore what Satan usurped from God are justifications for dominionism, not necessarily evidence.

The extra-biblical belief that Christians need to be organized in a one church per city model is the evidence.

This meant Lee had the great ambition to have an LC in every city on the entire planet. If that's not dominionism then I don't know what is.

Does merely establishing a church in every city fit this definition of dominionism?

Dominion theology (also known as dominionism) is a group of Christian political ideologies that seek to institute a nation governed by Christians based on their personal understandings of biblical law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology

If so then every denomination is part of dominionism. Roman Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutheranism, Baptist etc.

To my knowledge Lee had no interest in politics and governing any nation with Christians. Roman Catholicism on the other hand....

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Does merely establishing a church in every city fit this definition of dominionism?

Dominion theology (also known as dominionism) is a group of Christian political ideologies that seek to institute a nation governed by Christians based on their personal understandings of biblical law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology

If so then every denomination is part of dominionism. Roman Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutheranism, Baptist etc.

To my knowledge Lee had no interest in politics and governing any nation with Christians. Roman Catholicism on the other hand....

Not exactly but by you defining all segments of Dominion theology by using this definition you are setting up a strawman. Lee's teachings do share this characteristic of the Pentecostal Latter Rain movement which is also considered dominionism;

"The Latter Rain taught that God saw the church organized not into denominational camps, but along geographical lines. They expected that in the coming last days, the various Christian denominations would dissolve, and the true church would coalesce into citywide churches under the leadership of the newly-restored apostles and prophets."

Again, Christian dominionism covers of broad spectrum of thought. The main premise being that certain preparations need to be made by Christians on earth in order to usher in Christ's return whether that be in the political, cultural, or religious spheres or all of the above.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Not exactly but by you defining all segments of Dominion theology by using this definition you are setting up a strawman. Lee's teachings do share this characteristic of the Pentecostal Latter Rain movement which is also considered dominionism;

"The Latter Rain taught that God saw the church organized not into denominational camps, but along geographical lines. They expected that in the coming last days, the various Christian denominations would dissolve, and the true church would coalesce into citywide churches under the leadership of the newly-restored apostles and prophets."

Your broad sweeping generalization of Lee's theology under the broad spectrum of dominionism is not a straw man?

Originally Posted by Jo S

Again, Christian dominionism covers of broad spectrum of thought. The main premise being that certain preparations need to be made by Christians on earth in order to usher in Christ's return whether that be in the political, cultural, or religious spheres or all of the above.

So we don't need to prepare for Christ's return?

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Your broad sweeping generalization of Lee's theology under the broad spectrum of dominionism is not a straw man?

I likened his theology to two other schools of thought, Latter Rain and Kingdom Now, one of which is directly influenced by the other. How is that broad? This is rather specific in relation to all of dominion theology.

So we don't need to prepare for Christ's return?

Depends, is your faith in man or in Christ?

The Lord said to keep watch. He's the one that has done all the preperations;

Hebrews 10:5 "Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me.

and

Hebrews 11:16 "But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city."

God has already prepared us a new body and a heavenly city (the bride). Do you believe this?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Hebrews 11:16 "But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city."

God has already prepared us a new body and a heavenly city (the bride). Do you believe this?

So what exactly do you think Christians need to do to prepare for Christ's return?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Jo S

The body being the "bride" doctrine and believing certain overcomers will restore what Satan usurped from God are justifications for dominionism, not necessarily evidence.

The extra-biblical belief that Christians need to be organized in a one church per city model is the evidence.

This meant Lee had the great ambition to have an LC in every city on the entire planet. If that's not dominionism then I don't know what is.

To me what's disturbing about Christian Dominionism is their desire to bring back Old Testament punishments, like stoning, and all the rest of that dreadful law in the OT.

I don't see the recovery wanting that, not here in America, where our constitution disallows a theocracy, with separation of church and state.

However, offshoots of Lee, like Eastern Lightning, do seem to be Dominionists, and are linked to kidnappings, violence and extortion. So Lee's movement could morph into God knows what ; like becoming a doomsday cult. That's not a far leap. With Witness Lee as their personality cult leader, even while dead, they've got a good start on it.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by awareness

To me what's disturbing about Christian Dominionism is their desire to bring back Old Testament punishments, like stoning, and all the rest of that dreadful law in the OT.

I don't see the recovery wanting that, not here in America, where our constitution disallows a theocracy, with separation of church and state.

However, offshoots of Lee, like Eastern Lightning, do seem to be Dominionists, and are linked to kidnappings, violence and extortion. So Lee's movement could morph into God knows what ; like becoming a doomsday cult. That's not a far leap. With Witness Lee as their personality cult leader, even while dead, they've got a good start on it.

This is really just fringe stuff. It doesn't apply to the typical dominionist thought you'll find today in the churches but I suppose it has the potential to morph into that in very troubled times. Catholicism during the crusades and inquisitions are a good example of that happening.

Think about this, if the LC succeeded in the one church one city mandate all under the supervision of one MOTA, don't you think this type of meticulous organization of the church would make for an easy target? And couldn't this possibly set the stage for what happened to the early church by the Romans?

The LC would then most likely be usurped and become the new Catholicism aka the end times apostate church. It's all hypothetical of course, but this thinking leads me to believe the Lord allowed a bit of segregation within Christianity to exist for this reason. As a way to preserve his people until Christ comes to sort everything out.