Now's good - byHismercy

[UntoHim]

That's pretty weak, Mr. Drake, even for you.

Since the vicious ad hominem attacks go on "day in and day out" it shouldn't be so hard, now should it?
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[Drake]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

That's pretty weak, Mr. Drake, even for you.

Since the vicious ad hominem attacks go on "day in and day out" it shouldn't be so hard, now should it?
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No. Not a bit
You asked for one.

I gave you one from today. Fresh off the press.

But part of what makes this forum so toxic are comments just like that . The reason is simple. Ohio is engaging in button pushing. He picks this emotional issue, a clear failing, and then makes a false allegation that I defend the sin. The reason he cannot find one single example of my defending Philip Lee is because there are none. But he knew that when he said it. His objective was to attack and distract. He delights in the practice. His comments indicate anger and bitterness. That is why this forum has become toxic and why that sister left.

A few months ago you, I believe, asked why more current members do not frequent this forum. There is your answer. I believe more current members would come to discuss but for those antics.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

No. Not a bit
You asked for one.

I gave you one from today. Fresh off the press.

But part of what makes this forum so toxic are comments just like that . The reason is simple. Ohio is engaging in button pushing. He picks this emotional issue, a clear failing, and then makes a false allegation that I defend the sin. The reason he cannot find one single example of my defending Philip Lee is because there are none. But he knew that when he said it. His objective was to attack and distract. He delights in the practice. His comments indicate anger and bitterness. That is why this forum has become toxic and why that sister left.

A few months ago you, I believe, asked why more current members do not frequent this forum. There is your answer. I believe more current members would come to discuss but for those antics.

Drake

I agree with you that some on this forum see you as being a spokesman for LSM. I don't have enough evidence to make that judgement. You do defend LSM, and Ohio feels that since Philip Lee was the President defending one is defending the other. I don't agree with that, but Ohio has the right to express his opinion without it being called an ad hominem attack.

As for the forum "becoming toxic" I don't think that is fair. If you are going to get down and dirty discussing some ugly nasty business you should expect to get a little mud on you.

I don't know enough about your testimony, but I do know that I for one feel some responsibility. I was very active member of the church, and of LSM for years. I preached the gospel to hundreds, maybe even thousands of people and brought many people into the Local church. I only met Philip once and immediately had the sense that this was a lascivious man. This despite knowing he was WL's son, President of LSM, and in charge of other brothers I did respect like Ray Graver and Benson Phillips.

But it seems to me instead of accusing Ohio of an ad hominem attack all you need to do is say I completely repudiate the sinful abuse of PL on the saints, but I am not willing to condemn LSM over this because ...

(of course you need to fill in the ...)

The reason I disagree with Ohio is because I was in LSM and so were many other saints. We had no idea what was going on in Anaheim even though we drove there with deliveries and even though one of the sisters abused by PL was sent to Houston where I was.

However, for those who did know what was going on I feel they all fell far short of the glory of God when it came to dealing with this, and for some of them I'd go so far as to say they sinned. After studying this issue for awhile I would say that WL sinned in numerous ways, RK & KR sinned in writing the whitewash, EM, and the other puppet elders who replaced JI, etal sinned in pleasing man and protecting a predator. I would say their actions speak louder than any words in despising the little ones abused by PL.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The reason I disagree with Ohio is because I was in LSM and so were many other saints. We had no idea what was going on in Anaheim even though we drove there with deliveries and even though one of the sisters abused by PL was sent to Houston where I was.

Thanks, ZNP, and let me add to your post.

Regarding the quarantines during the "New Way" of the late 80's, my own excuse is ignorance. I know nothing! Because of Titus Chu's loyalties to Witness Lee, the facts of these events were not known or available to me or the brothers around me. He may bear liability, but I have none. In a vacuum of facts, I trusted the leaders around me, who trusted TC, who trusted WL over John Ingalls and many other brothers.

Drake, however, often testifies of his friendships with senior people at LSM. He has been active in the LC's since the mid-70's. He knows many of these Blended people personally. He also bears responsibility for what he was a partner to.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

But part of what makes this forum so toxic are comments just like that . The reason is simple. Ohio is engaging in button pushing. He picks this emotional issue, a clear failing, and then makes a false allegation that I defend the sin. The reason he cannot find one single example of my defending Philip Lee is because there are none. But he knew that when he said it. His objective was to attack and distract. He delights in the practice. His comments indicate anger and bitterness. That is why this forum has become toxic and why that sister left.

Those with a bad temper always blame the other person for "pushing their button."

What makes this forum so valuable is that it gets to the heart of the matter. It strikes the axe at the root. Drake supports a publisher named LSM which foments division around the globe, which brings churches under their legalistic bondage, which has long hidden a corrupt management, and which attacks those who would speak their conscience and shine a light on their unrighteous practices.

True to form, Drake then attacks me for bringing up these facts as so-called "ad hominems," claiming that I cause this forum to be toxic, chasing away current LC members, and accusing him of defending the sins of the former manager of LSM. While I never directly claimed that he defended Philip Lee's many sins, where was he when Philip laid waste many beloved brothers and sisters? How can he condone his silence? By claiming to be "one" with the brothers? By professing ignorance? Remember that, "Inaction in the face of injustice makes a person morally guilty of the injustice."

But here is what the Apostle says (2Cor 6) about actions like his:

• What partnership has righteousness with lawlessness?
• What fellowship has light with darkness?
• What harmony has Christ with Belial?
• What par has a believer with an unbeliever?
• What agreement has the temple of God with idols?

Paul also says in 2 Tim 2.19, "Let everyone that names the name of the Lord depart from unrighteousness."