Deceptions on Campus

[clever sister]

Originally Posted by aron

There's a reason they go on the college campus: teen-agers are more susceptible to this pressure-and-control format than 35 year-olds. On the campus they get a much higher return-on-investment (ROI) than on Main Street.

100% true. They don't even hide the fact that this is their motive.

In fellowship with the wider church on why there is the focus on college campuses they have said that this is the first time they have been away from home and that makes them more open to the gospel.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by clever sister

this is the first time they have been away from home and that makes them more open to the gospel.

And you believe it is wrong to preach the gospel when people are more open to it?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

And you believe it is wrong to preach the gospel when people are more open to it?

It's not about preaching the gospel -- but you knew that!

It's about being honest about who you are, and who you are associated with.

How much different was Apostle Paul towards others:

For this is our confidence: our conscience testifies, that in singleness and sincerity of God, not in fleshly wisdom, but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and even more so towards you.

(II Cor 1.12)

[clever sister]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's not about preaching the gospel -- but you knew that!

I don't have a problem with Christian students coming together as a club on campus and preaching the gospel to their new classmates.

What bothers me, is that the saints were asked to put a lot of time and money into the campus work (because these young, vulnerable students were seen as 'easy' and 'ideal' targets.
What bothers me, is the deception that goes into make them look like just a bunch of students meeting together as a club on campus and preaching the gospel to new classmates, when it is actually being led by the LC and the students have little say in what is going on.

Ooops, quoted the wrong person

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by clever sister

I don't have a problem with Christian students coming together as a club on campus and preaching the gospel to their new classmates.

What bothers me, is that the saints were asked to put a lot of time and money into the campus work (because these young, vulnerable students were seen as 'easy' and 'ideal' targets.
What bothers me, is the deception that goes into make them look like just a bunch of students meeting together as a club on campus and preaching the gospel to new classmates, when it is actually being led by the LC and the students have little say in what is going on.

Ooops, quoted the wrong person

All Christian groups at colleges will engage in "deception" or marketing or activity designed to make convert. I heard that one group teach students to befriend classmates for that purpose. These groups are also led not by students but older missionaries, pastors or priests (the Catholic ones) who are part of a larger interdenominational organization.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

All Christian groups at colleges will engage in "deception" or marketing or activity designed to make convert. I heard that one group teach students to befriend classmates for that purpose. These groups are also led not by students but older missionaries, pastors or priests (the Catholic ones) who are part of a larger interdenominational organization.

You know what's great about this response? The ones who take the lead to bash " fallen Christianity" at every turn will, when you point out their fraudulence, do the equivalent of an indifferent shrug - "So what? Everyone does it".

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by aron

You know what's great about this response? The ones who take the lead to bash " fallen Christianity" at every turn will, when you point out their fraudulence, do the equivalent of an indifferent shrug - "So what? Everyone does it".

Your point is moot because I don't recall anyone "bashing" fallen Christianity for their on-campus ministry efforts.

Maybe you forget that:
a) all the college groups do similar, from Catholic to evangelical to parachurch organizations. I can easily prove this, I personally know paid missionaries/volunteers of other college groups in their 30's/40's and leaders who are in their 70's. Guess who is calling the big shots in these groups? The students? Of course not. And guess which churches they send new converts into - only specific churches which fit their denominational criteria. I am sure they "bend the rules" at times to fit within the secular college rules.

b) Witness Lee was probably inspired by the practices of the college groups and churches already operating on the colleges, and adopted similar methods.


It was in fact Bill Bright and others who started this idea of converting impressionable young minds far away from home at college:

http://campusministry.org/article/co...-on-the-planet

Each country sends their best and brightest to the university for education and training.

Focusing our evangelistic and multiplication efforts on this one percent is a very strategic way to expand the Kingdom of God and fulfill the Great Commission.


“If we can win the university today, we will win the world tomorrow.” ~ Bill Bright

Almost one fourth of the world’s college students reside in North America and they represent the most reachable, recruitable, trainable, and sendable category of persons on the planet


It's okay when Americans do it in other country's colleges, but not okay when Chinese people do it in American colleges:

Never before has God opened the doors and hearts of so many students world-wide to allow English speaking Christians from North America to have impact.

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by aron

You know what's great about this response? The ones who take the lead to bash " fallen Christianity" at every turn will, when you point out their fraudulence, do the equivalent of an indifferent shrug - "So what? Everyone does it".

You know what is sad about his response? The fact that there are so many GREAT college ministries out there showing the love of Christ. They're dedicated to teaching, shepherding, and discipling countless young people to Christ. These groups are not about growing a local church or a denomination - they're about growing the Body. I hope that Evangelical someday gets to meet or fellowship with a group like that - it would be life changing.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

All Christian groups at colleges will engage in "deception" or marketing or activity designed to make convert. I heard that one group teach students to befriend classmates for that purpose. These groups are also led not by students but older missionaries, pastors or priests (the Catholic ones) who are part of a larger interdenominational organization.

In the past few months the church I'm in has been supporting Intervarsity Christian Fellowship at the four year college in my county because they are trying to establish a club there.

True that they have full-timers (recent graduates from nearby colleges with Inter-varsity clubs) who are working with the Intervarsity organization regarding what they are doing to preach the gospel to students, organize student Bible studies, form a club, etc. They just don't lie about it to everybody There is no secret about who they are and what they are doing there.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by JJ

In the past few months the church I'm in has been supporting Intervarsity Christian Fellowship at the four year college in my county because they are trying to establish a club there.

True that they have full-timers (recent graduates from nearby colleges with Inter-varsity clubs) who are working with the Intervarsity organization regarding what they are doing to preach the gospel to students, organize student Bible studies, form a club, etc. They just don't lie about it to everybody There is no secret about who they are and what they are doing there.

What lies are you accusing us of? If asked we say who we are, we don't pretend to be Catholics or Muslims.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

And you believe it is wrong to preach the gospel when people are more open to it?

Jesus told John's disciples to tell him what they saw: the sick were healed, the dead raised, and the poor had the gospel preached to them.

We (FTTA trainees) were told to ignore the sick and the poor, the widows and orphans, and anyone else who couldn't repay us in this age. Instead go after the "good building materials", especially Caucasian college students. Is that the gospel.

Originally Posted by Freedom

We were put in a position of having to rationalize what was really going on. . .

Deception is seen as the pathway to the truth. . . the end justifies the means. For example, "We're just Christians" . . . who are hiding our all-too-real affiliation. Once the target becomes interested in "just Jesus", slowly move them away by incremental steps of rationalization. "Christ only, Christ ever" soon becomes "Christ and the Church", which becomes the vector for the "ministry of the age".

Bait and switch. If you do it carefully enough, they never know what hit them.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

Deception is seen as the pathway to the truth. . . the end justifies the means. For example, "We're just Christians" . . . who are hiding our all-too-real affiliation. Once the target becomes interested in "just Jesus", slowly move them away by incremental steps of rationalization. "Christ only, Christ ever" soon becomes "Christ and the Church", which becomes the vector for the "ministry of the age".

Bait and switch. If you do it carefully enough, they never know what hit them.

So well said. Describes the journey of every LC member.

Fortunately it does "hit them," at least many of them, as it hit me back in 2005. By then, the thought of leaving gripped us in fear.

I looked back at the trail I was on, and said, "how did I ever get here?"

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

Bait and switch. If you do it carefully enough, they never know what hit them.

True, they play the ball and cup trick, and if honest could do it with clear cups. But they're not honest. Nee was right, "Christians lie." He should know.

[Bradley]

Originally Posted by clever sister

Of course the club secretary has a specific role in the club, such as taking minutes at the annual meeting and ensuring all the paperwork for the club was in order. But I was never asked to do any of that. Instead I was asked to sign some paperwork to make it appear that the club was being led by students, when really it was being led by the full time serving ones.

Yeah I remember in my home locality it was usually a 'mature student' (i.e. a uni student in his 40s) who would fill that role in the club. A leading brother usually, or at the very least, one of the brothers who attended the important 'brothers meeting'.

Originally Posted by aron

We (FTTA trainees) were told to ignore the sick and the poor, the widows and orphans, and anyone else who couldn't repay us in this age. Instead go after the "good building materials", especially Caucasian college students. Is that the gospel.

No, I don't believe it is. We were told the same thing. Before I joined the LCM I had a thing, a 'little ministry' you could call it with the homeless in my city. They all knew me and many of them had gotten saved through me. They'd pray with me every time we saw each other and one guy really experienced the Lord and started groping my back looking for wings. But all that was to go in the rubbish bin when I joined the LCM because these homeless were not fit for attending the meetings, let alone the carrying out of the work. I was disappointed but obedient and soon forgot about the homeless brothers, focusing on the campus students.

Originally Posted by clever sister

I'll say Australia/New Zealand. The practises in the 2 countries are similar, and both countries campus works led to the FTTH.

Yeah I graduated from FTTH. You'll probably know who I am now lol, not many FTTH grads by the name of Brad.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Bradley

I was disappointed but obedient and soon forgot about the homeless brothers, focusing on the campus students..

The power of the gospel is to reach the sick, the deaf, the blind, the poor, the lame. Not just the "good building material". It could hardly be more plain. And it could hardly be more disregarded than in the LSM churches and "work".

The LSM is afraid of society's detritus because it would unmask their powerlessness. Why do you think they put so much pressure on people? Because they have no power. The fact that they must manipulate, deceive and cajole naive college students to make disciples is proof to me of their utter lack of divine reality.

Originally Posted by DistantStar

they never put any pressure on me not to use my King James Bible.

But that you never let it go marked you as not fully "one" with the programme; that you subsequently left further cements their suspicions that you didn't "get the vision".

These people are deeply alienated from their fellow believers.

[DistantStar]

Originally Posted by aron

But that you never let it go marked you as not fully "one" with the programme; that you subsequently left further cements their suspicions that you didn't "get the vision".

These people are deeply alienated from their fellow believers.

You have a point. In spite of usually being "accepted" in some sense, I never truly felt as though I was one with them.
It's kinda confusing. On the one hand I did feel a part of them, always feeling accepted in the big and small meetings, and they often went out of their way to bring me there (giving me lifts and so). And yet I recall that one time, sitting at my very small flatroom, alone, and seeing that they uploaded a video to YouTube. I saw friends I know in that video, and I just thought "Why didn't they invite me?". It's kinda petty, but it bothered me. Why wasn't I even aware of this?

This is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTKir4mBA4g

[DistantStar]

I think it was actually this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MsJ20rgNZg

By this point I've been with them for over a year. I left shortly afterwards.

Edit: No I'm confused. It is this video, but it was my first year of college. By the time it was uploaded I've been with them for only a couple of months, but many people in that video, like one good friend, was also new.