The local church, the Work and the New Testament Ministry

[Steel]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Anyway, they don't help your communication and are hard on the eyes, in my humble opinion. No offense, really, but I don't get them.

Noted... I'll see what I can do... And i the mean time... As I continue to perfect my writing... Try and bear with me... You seem to be understanding what I write fairly well.

As for how you present what I write... Just try not to cut it up in a way that causes readers to lose the original context... As that would be misleading... And we don't want that to happen, do we.

Originally Posted by Igzy

You'll find I'm pretty straightforward, but fair.

I trust the Lord. Beyond Him... I trust the Lord.

Originally Posted by Igzy

As for your question about how people view Christianity, I realize that there are things that are "Christ" and things that are not Christ. What God hasn't given me the wisdom for is to be the overall judge of what those things are. If I hear of a church on the other side of the country that has a music ministry with a banjo I can't determine that is or is not Christ. And neither can anyone else. I have a hard enough time determining what's Christ in me. I don't have the bandwidth, nor the commission, to police the rest of the Church.

I have actually stood on a stage with Benny Hinn as He carried out his folly ministry in front of thousands on Christian believers from all different types of congregations (another story)... And I've been sitting at the front table at a Creflo Dollar meeting, where he was just a few feet away, carrying out his folly ministry, while walking up and down doing a type of dance on money that hundreds of people had come up to the stage and thrown at it (yet another story)... I would never tells another believer to give themselves to what I saw... And I would certainly, with the Lord's leading, speak against it in very strong terms.

And yet... When my wife and I were newly married we would watch TBN together, and often be blessed by some of what we heard on it... But that season ended within a short space of time

Go figure.

This is why I've come to know that it is safest to simply remain in the Lord as best we can at all times.

Originally Posted by Igzy

As for God not accepting "mixture," I think that is a naive statement, which again has the intent of discounting people you have judged are less holy than they should be. As if God made you the judge.

But no matter how much you try to twist what I said... The words are right there for all to see... That I didn't judge anyone... Which exposes you through your own spoken words.

Christianity is a mixture because it is out of humanity... No ifs or buts about it... Only Christ is pure... No human is pure... And we can go to scripture regarding this truth if you are not clear about this.

This is not me judging anyone... It is simply me stating what scripture clearly says... And if you have a problem with it... Go take it up with the One who inspired those who wrote scripture to write what they wrote... I'm simply speaking what scripture says... As you, being a born again believer in Christ, should also choose to do.

Now if you think that I have misunderstood what scripture says about this matter... Then please, let's fellowship about scripture regarding this matter.

Originally Posted by Igzy

The problem is, we are all mixed. Me, you, ABC Community Church and the local church you meet with.

That's what I've already said.

But let's keep this little factoid in mind... It is God who has chosen to allow this to be as it is... God chose to leave us with our old fallen man for a time... And therefore... Perhaps we could fellowship on why God chose to do this.

Originally Posted by Igzy

We are mixed because we are still fallen. We are a work in progress. But God still accepts us.

Not so fast, Igzy... Scripture says nothing about God accepting us in our old fallen man... God accepts us only... In Christ Jesus... In fact... It is Christ Jesus, whom we as born again believers are brought into, that God is accepting... Let's be very clear regarding that reality of our salvation.

And why does God accept us in when we are in Christ...

2 Corinthians 5:17... "So then if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away; behold, they have become new."

Because in God's eyes... In Christ, we are "...a new creation..." . . . "...The old things have passed away; behold, they have become new."

You want to be acceptable to God... Be found in Christ... And that is the crux of our salvation... Anything else is akin to believing a lie.

Originally Posted by Igzy

That's what GRACE means.

Well... No... Actually... It isn't.

Grace, regarding the salvation of fallen humanity, is defined in Romans 5:8... "But God commends His own love to us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

The old creation was terminated with the death of Jesus on the cross... And nothing of the old creation came out in His resurrection... Now we can look around us and think this isn't the case... But the truth of what we are seeing is that it is all already terminated and what we are seeing is it passing away... Like the death throes of an already dead creature.

If you want to find/see something that is living... The only way to see/find this is to find/look at a born again believer who is abiding in Christ... Everything else is just terminated nothingness in God's eyes.

"...It is finished..."

And by grace... We live on in Christ Jesus.

Originally Posted by Igzy

So if you take your statement to the extreme, which I think you did, you end up saying that God doesn't accept anything, which denies grace.

I am a product of God's grace... And though I stumble in many, many things... I hope I would never deny this... regarding myself, or anyone else who has experienced what I have in Him.

Originally Posted by Igzy

I don't think you or anyone else is discerning enough to know precisely all the time what is Christ and what isn't, in yourself, let alone anyone else.

If you read other comments that I've made on the threads of this website you will see that I openly said as much... Without being asked to.

But... Knowing what a mixture is doesn't mean that I am judging anyone regarding their person... And if what you say is true... Then in your own words you have judged others as well by saying... "We are mixed because we are still fallen. We are a work in progress." . . . But I certainly didn't take your speaking to mean that... Why then would you think to do so with my speaking?

Originally Posted by Igzy

We just act in faith to the best of our ability and let God correct us going forward.

Amen... Now can you have the above disposition regarding people like Witness Lee and those involved with LSM and the local churches? . . . And will you not be offended by them as they try to do exactly what you say you're trying to do?