Whistleblower

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Drake, it is you who are digging thru the garbage. Don't they call that "dumpster diving." You jumped in head first trying to rescue LSM. It's really sad that you can not distinguish between actual accusations and my dismay that Witness Lee would risk "scandals regarding rape and immorality" at his ministry.

Going back to my original 7-year-old comment that Drake is so obsessed with here, I wondered then and now why WL would not just funnel money to his kids? It was a conversation between Don Hardy and Samuel Cheng, W. Nee's brother-in-law, that alerted the readers to WL's long-term guilt concerning his sons. Why not just give them money? Why place Philip in charge at LSM, knowing what he was prone to do with women, thus risking "scandals regarding rape and immorality" at his ministry. Scandals which we are still discussing!

Ohio,

I have no need to "rescue" LSM. That is silly. Why would that be even needed? Rescue LSM from .....you? You could post 1000 more times on this topic, another 50 years of posting.... and it would not affect anything in the least at LSM. I have made my view clear... I'll repeat again for your benefit: Anything that could be destroyed should be destroyed. No props are needed. No rescue is needed. If it is not a work of ministry of the Lord then it will fall. It will fail. If it is the work of ministry raised up by the Lord then nothing you say or do here will ever affect it.

Rather, if my spirit is provoked it is because I find your reviling and railing allegations and innuendo of rape a lawless piling on. That there was sexual immorality is an awful, terrible, and repulsive thing... that you would heap on criminal allegations of rape in the face of evidence to the contrary is even worse. You appear to take special delight in dancing on the failures of others. Dumpster diving? You have taken up residence in it. Scandals? You decorate them. Obsession? I've never seen anyone so continuously preoccupied with ideas or thoughts about PL as you are. Well brother Ohio, I just hope your own life record is as righteous as you demand of others. I really hope your conduct in life has been free of sin, immorality, and failures. We will be judged according to standard by which we judged others. Our life record will be played to a broad audience someday. Ready for that?

You have had several opportunities to deny the allegation of rape. You didn't. I tried. You refused. The reader can decide now.

And here is an odd inconsistency. You and others claim to have the highest respect for John Ingalls the elder in the church in Anaheim during this time. Yet, Brother John never called the cops... so either he was delinquent, negligent, and complicit in the crime you allege by his inaction or ..... it did not reach the level of a crime. Would the John Ingalls you knew have reported a crime if he believed one was being committed? Yes, I believe he would have. Rather, his estimation was that it was a matter to be dealt with by the church. Did he not indicate that? Why? Because he considered it sin, or immorality, or something of the genre that the elders should deal with. Not the cops. Had he called the cops for something other than a crime, they would have told him the same thing Benson told him. They would have said that he needed to deal with it as it is under his jurisdiction not theirs.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Rather, if my spirit is provoked it is because I find your reviling and railing allegations and innuendo of rape a lawless piling on.

Drake, what is reviling is the way Witness Lee treated John Ingalls, slander him before all of his brothers and sisters. Railing allegations and innuendo are what filled the despicable book Fermentation of the Present Rebellion. Rape is what the husband of that molested sister at LSM thought of, which is why he went to get a gun and shoot Philip Lee. Piling on is what Lee and the Blendeds have done for years to those who cry out for righteousness.

Hey Drake, why will not say if Witness Lee was wrong for opposing Philip Lee's excommunication?

Let me repeat. Why will not say if Witness Lee was wrong for opposing Philip Lee's excommunication?

And here is an odd inconsistency. You and others claim to have the highest respect for Witness Lee, the acting God, the Minister of the Age, during this time period. Yet, Witness Lee constantly promised the elders that he would take care of his son. He should have called the cops, but he did not. He should have fired his son, but he did not. He should have taken the proper action any minister of the Lord would take, but he did not ... so either he was dishonest, delinquent, negligent, or complicit in the very same crimes committed by his son Philip.

Why should John Ingalls have reported a crime at LSM months before he learned about it? He did not work at LSM. Philip Lee never met in the church he shepherded. Why did Benson Philips and Ray Graver do nothing, yet they knew all about what happened? What about all the other employees at LSM? Why did they do nothing? They too are complicit of PL's crimes. Why did Kangas and Marks say nothing? Robichaux just took over Ingalls' translation work, so he had a financial motive to remain silent. The rest of LSM's employees faced termination if they spoke up, yet they did nothing on behalf of that little sister.

Shame on the entire LSM organization! They exalt man and not God. They fear man and not God. One day they will all face His judgment seat for their action and inaction.

Well brother Drake, I just hope your own life record is as righteous as you demand of others. You are part of a ministry which daily condemns the entirety of Christianity. I really hope your conduct in life has been free of sin, immorality, and failures. Has not your abundant pride preceded your fall? You will be judged according to the standard by which you judge others. Your life record will be played to a broad audience someday. Ready for that?

I say are you ready for that?

[Drake]

Ohio>"Let me repeat. Why will not say if Witness Lee was wrong for opposing Philip Lee's excommunication?"


Ohio,

I find it amusing how you latch onto a question that you think is the gotcha of all gotchas... Koinomia has been wringing his hands wanting me to answer this question.... He should funnel all his questions through you so I will answer them ... ... until he starts acting like a brother wanting to have a conversation and less like an inquisitor demanding answers to his entrapment questions.

Ready? Sit down... here comes the answer! Russians! Bombshell!

The answer to that question is easier from my chair than it was from the chairs for those who had to make that decision.

Brother Lee should not have opposed his son's excommunication.

ok?

But, that was not my decision and it was not your decision, was it? The difference is that you are obsessed with it....or rather it possesses you. The failure of others is the basis of your church life and by all indicators your christian life as well. Your words express all that is in your heart. Every post reveals your angst, your anger, your hatred toward brothers in the Lord. Rather, you should know that every man, save One, is a failure at best. You, me, Brother Lee are the same in that way. Brother Lee was a servant of the Lord, but at the most fundamental level he was a brother in the Lord. His misjudgement in this matter of PL does not negate the anointing of his ministry. When I read the Life-study of Genesis or Christ Vs. Religion for example, I do not think "oh, he defended his son, I will throw this all away". What an insult that would be to the Lord's ministry and His anointing.

Rather, all failures are a test to the vision the Lord gave me. It is not dependent on any man. If it is then it should vanish. You mocked following the anointing. But, unless you follow the anointing you will fall into error. I think you followed a man, Witness Lee, at some time in your life... and when he stumbled, you stumbled. You were wrong to follow a man then and you are more wrong to mock following the anointing now. I do not follow a man, never have since coming into the Lord's Recovery. I do not feel any need to defend LSM. Not an inkling. I follow the anointing and today that anointing is on the ministry that produces local churches to build up the Body of Christ and bring the Lord back. If the anointing moves I will by His mercy and grace recognize it and follow it.

You have your reasons for feeling the way you do but those reasons have boxed you in. Every conversation is the same now.... like being caught in an infinite loop... but not infinite because when the Lord comes back all your harsh words will end. Then you will be released.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Ohio,

I find it amusing how you latch onto a question that you think is the gotcha of all gotchas... Koinomia has been wringing his hands wanting me to answer this question.... He should funnel all his questions through you so I will answer them ... ... until he starts acting like a brother wanting to have a conversation and less like an inquisitor demanding answers to his entrapment questions.

Ready? Sit down... here comes the answer! Russians! Bombshell!

The answer to that question is easier from my chair than it was from the chairs for those who had to make that decision.

Brother Lee should not have opposed his son's excommunication.

ok?

Thank you. Now was that so hard?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Thank you. Now was that so hard?

Not a bit. If you were paying attention to my previous posts you would know what my view would be. It was only your darkened understanding that prevents you from seeing the obvious.

Drake

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Drake

Not a bit. If you were paying attention to my previous posts you would know what my view would be. It was only your darkened understanding that prevents you from seeing the obvious.

Drake

Drake, this is not fair. You say that my query ("Was Witness Lee wrong to oppose Philip Lee's excommunication?") was an "entrapment question." Yet, most anyone else would consider it completely simple and straightforward (and thank you for answering it).

A follow-up would be: "If Witness Lee was wrong for opposing Philip Lee's excommunication, was he also wrong for quarantining John Ingalls?" But don't feel entrapped; don't worry--this time it's rhetorical.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

Drake, this is not fair. You say that my query ("Was Witness Lee wrong to oppose Philip Lee's excommunication?") was an "entrapment question." Yet, most anyone else would consider it completely simple and straightforward (and thank you for answering it).

A follow-up would be: "If Witness Lee was wrong for opposing Philip Lee's excommunication, was he also wrong for quarantining John Ingalls?" But don't feel entrapped; don't worry--this time it's rhetorical.

Koinonia,

Wait, not fair? Let me clarify why your questions are not simple and straightforward and why they are entrapment questions.

Of course you have another question. That was the purpose of the last one! You have several more to follow. Your questions are like bird crumbs that lead to a box propped up by a stick with a string attached to the stick. Oh my, what’s that all about?

It is craft on your part. If Drake answers this way then you’ll ask that ... but if he answers that way you’ll accuse him of that..... ad nauseam. That is why you won’t answer my questions to you. Yours are leading questions like a lawyer who insists “Mr. Drake, just answer the question! I’m asking the questions here!”

But, no worries. I don’t feel entrapped because it is not that clever. It is kinda cute actually but not funny because the topics are so serious. I don’t find that kind of engagement meaningful or beneficial and since that is the mode you are operating in I put you on my ignore list. If you ever want to have a dialogue then I am always willing to converse with a brother.

Thanks
Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

But, that was not my decision and it was not your decision, was it? The difference is that you are obsessed with it....or rather it possesses you. The failure of others is the basis of your church life and by all indicators your christian life as well. Your words express all that is in your heart. Every post reveals your angst, your anger, your hatred toward brothers in the Lord.

Drake

Hi Drake, are you like some internet pseudo-shrink?

I think you got me mixed up with someone else.

I simply refuse to put up with your LC hypocrisy, and you obviously are not used to that.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hi Drake, are you like some internet pseudo-shrink?

I think you got me mixed up with someone else.

I simply refuse to put up with your LC hypocrisy, and you obviously are not used to that.

Don’t need to be a shrink to see this serious case of obsession. My goodness Ohio. You cannot carry on a conversation without spewing the same rhetorical nonsense. You refuse to put up with common sense and civil discourse.... I suppose you are not used to that.

[Drake]

Awareness>”But the testimony from Speaking The Truth in Love doesn't say any of that. “

Right, Awareness.

Look, we all agree with Nell’s main point. Forced sex of any type is a crime. Report it. Workplace harassment? Report it. File a civil suit.

Adultery, fornication, immorality.... it’s with parents, spouses, elders, etc. it is terrible but law enforcement won’t do a thing about that until it turns into a crime... a law enforcement issue.

But don’t call it a crime when there is no evidence it’s a crime. I say, call it what it is so the right people can deal with it. All the evidence suggests that is how JI saw it.. not a matter for the police.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Don’t need to be a shrink to see this serious case of obsession. My goodness Ohio. You cannot carry on a conversation without spewing the same rhetorical nonsense. You refuse to put up with common sense and civil discourse.... I suppose you are not used to that.

Drake, Obviously the whole sordid history of Philip Lee as the CEO, as "The Office," of LSM strikes a nerve with you. You really need to come clean and get over that. Usually outbursts of anger like yours over past events indicates a guilty conscience. I would encourage you to go to the Lord about what part you played during that awful period when Philip Lee ran LSM with a rod of iron, bringing all the workers, all the elders, and all the LC's under total subjection. (Perhaps you also had a hand in the coverup efforts too.)

Here is some encouragement from the Apostle John, "if you confess your sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

[Drake]

-1

And that last post is the perfect example of what I meant.

You got it bad, bro. Real bad.