What is the boundary of the Local Church?

[ZNPaaneah]

This word by the Lord is the first mention and is the blueprint. If the boundary of a city was part of the vision it seems it would be here. Instead Jesus makes it very clear that you need a bare minimum of two or three. These two or three can be "wherever". They also have the promise to "bind and loose" and that "anything they ask will be done" provided they are "meeting in the Lord's name". For example the Apostle Paul instructing the church to excommunicate the evil brother, Martin Luther nailing his 95 points to the door, etc.

Two or three would be all it would take to excommunicate someone from the LSM office, or to ban them from a building owned by them, etc. We can understand that as few as two or three could have authority here on Earth over something. So the Lord's word is that "what they bind on Earth". That is their authority, some part of the Earth. What they bind on Earth will be what is bound in Heaven. Jesus doesn't say they have authority to bind in heaven, only that if they are one with the Lord in this decision (meeting in His person and work) that the kingdom of heaven will be one with their decision. He also tells them that they need to "tell it to the church and if he refuses to hear the church". I believe this has to refer to the kingdom of the heaven.

If I am offended with a brother, say PL, I can sue him, I can take him to criminal court, I can get a legal judgment that prevents him from coming within a few hundred yards of my property, etc. There are many ways that two or three could "bind an evil brother here on Earth".

But, where I differ with Witness Lee is interpreting "tell it to the church" as being a local church defined by the boundary of a city. For example, suppose I tell it to the church in Houston. How exactly do I do this? There is absolutely no basis to say that "telling it to the church" should be interpreted as having a private meeting with two or three elders. So maybe, two or three of us come from Anaheim and announce in the Lord's table what took place, my efforts to reconcile, and why I am binding PL.

You may claim, as Ray and Benson did, that this is a "local matter" and should be announced in Anaheim. But why? I meet in Houston. I was sent several times from Houston to Anaheim on behalf of the LSM to deliver printed materials. A very large number of saints in Houston were serving LSM. Why does this not concern them? One of the sisters abused by PL was sent to Houston. PL was the President of LSM, why isn't this a concern to all serving LSM?

OK, so in my case, I stand up in the Lord's table, and "tell it to the church". But we all know we often had visitors from other localities. We also know that many saints who used to live in Houston have moved to other localities and this would be big news that would spread. People would get home and make phone calls. (What happened in Anaheim was heard among the entire Lord's Recovery. I heard of it when I was in Taipei.) Why doesn't that count as "tell it to the church"? Surely, if you equate "tell it to the church" with the person being bound "in the kingdom of heaven" then how could you say that this is a local matter? So I do not see any limitation at all when the Lord says "tell it to the church". You could speak to saints in Texas, New York and California. Why not? There is nothing in Matt 18 that suggests any boundary or limitation to the term "church". When Titus Chu was excommunicated the Blendeds wrote an open letter to the church. This included every one associated with the Local church, not just in a single locality.

Therefore I do not interpret "tell it to the church" as referring to a single locality defined by the boundary of that city. I do not see any reference at all to suggest "tell it to the church" equals "tell it to the elders". So I don't see any requirement for some kind of "approved elders". The only indication of a prerequisite or requirement is that they make this decision "in the Lord's name". When Titus, or Max, or the Sister's rebellion were being disciplined an explanation was given to the saints. In my opinion none of these explanations met this standard of "being in the name of the Lord". The church in Houston is not the 200 saints that meet on Windswept, but rather every believer in the city. Will every genuine believer "amen" the excommunication of PL? That is the standard? Will every genuine believer "amen" the excommunication of Titus, or Max, or the Sister's? That is the standard.

[UntoHim]

ZNP,
I think you have milked and stretched this thread as far as you can. Your last number of posts are becoming very repetitive, and you're stretching out the original subject of the thread beyond reason in my view. If you have to resort to using the producer of 60 mins to make a point, it's past the time to move on.
-

[ZNPaaneah]

First mention of “wall”.

Gen 49:22
Joseph is a fruitful bough,
A fruitful bough by a fountain;
His branches run over the wall.

This is the first mention of the term "wall" in the Bible. We saw with Joseph there was judgement, righteousness, there was also mercy and truth. This is the cross of Christ. This is where we can see all of these things together, this is the "wall" for the church.

Ex 14:29
And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.

Once again, this "wall" of water signifies the cross of Christ. That is our wall. That is our boundary.

Ps 51:18
Build thou the walls of Jerusalem

Those that claim there are no boundaries, this is a strong confirmation that the church, the New Jerusalem does have walls. If there were no walls then why are you complaining about PL?

Eph 2:14
For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,

In the church there are many partitions that have been broken down. The one between Jews and Gentiles, Rich and Poor, Male and Female. All of these have been broken down by the cross of Christ. Once again we can see this in Matt 18 where every member needs to humble themselves as a small child to enter the kingdom.

Rev 21:12
having a wall great and high

If you understand that the cross of Christ is our wall, then it is certainly a "great and high" wall. If you teach that the boundary of a worldly city is the wall then what a poor excuse for a wall.

[ZNPaaneah]

Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations

Ps 89:14 Righteousness and justice are the foundation of thy throne: Lovingkindness and truth go before thy face.

Heb 6:1 not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

1Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:20 being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone

These four verses make it clear that the foundation must be Jesus Christ. He is our righteousness and Justice. He is the revelation of the apostles and prophets. He is the reason we repented of dead works. Our foundation is our faith in Him.

There is a very striking similarity between the description of this wall and the description of the Breastplate of Judgement in Exodus 28. It also is adorned with almost the same 12 stones. These stones are given the names of the 12 tribes whereas the stones on the foundation of this wall are given the names of the 12 apostles. The breastplate was worn on the breast of the High Priest when he was to ask judgement of God and it was used by God to speak to the High Priest. The precious stones signified how precious God’s people were in His sight. If the New Jerusalem is the Bride of Christ, then the wall is her breastplate of judgement.

The breastplate of judgement provides the counsel and judgement of God, it covers the breast and protects the priest providing security. In the same way the wall surrounds the heart of the city of Jerusalem. It is God’s judgement and counsel that protects the city and gives it security. The foundation of this judgement and counsel is the precious people of God. With the Breastplate God shines a light on different stones to speak to the priest. With the wall those stones represent the 12 apostles. God’s judgement and counsel is in His word, this is our protection, this is the wall that surrounds the city. If you leave the word you leave the city.

Now this ties into Matt 18 — if the two or three gathering together are within these walls, they are within the counsel and judgement of God, then everyone within these walls, everyone in the New Jerusalem will amen their decision. No one cares that a decision is made in Cleveland or Toledo, what they care is that the decision is made within the confines of the NT, within the fellowship of the apostles, within the counsel and judgement of God.

[ZNPaaneah]

One major bone of contention was that two or three are not enough to make important decisions. The “proof” offered by Evangelical of this claim is that there was one meeting in Acts concerning doctrinal issues that had more than two or three (though there were other meetings that only had two or three recorded in the NT that also dealt with doctrinal matters). So the obvious question which was asked repeatedly by Ohio but never answered by Evangelical is “what is the minimum number needed?”

17And he measured the wall thereof, a hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel.

This question is answered in a figure in the New Jerusalem. The wall is the boundary. Everything within the wall qualifies as “the New Jerusalem” and everything outside of it is not. This wall is 144 cubits high, 12 x 12 cubits high. And the cubit (the measure of a man) in this case is the measure of an Angel.

This is a very high standard. 60 blendeds will not measure up. Adding more people will not help you meet this standard. The only thing that meets this standard is the fellowship of the Apostles, the Word of God, Jesus Christ, the chief cornerstone of the foundation. The issue isn’t two or three saints, the issue is that they are “in Christ”. Very often we see those who are standing on sinking sand will think adding the numbers will add to the legitimacy. Jesus did not think this way in Matt 18, Paul did not think this way in rebuking Peter or helping Apollos.

If you want to disqualify gatherings of Christians as not being up to the standard of the church, then the issue is not how many are meeting, but whether or not they are “in Christ”. You might think this is the function of the wall, to separate the New Jerusalem from everything else. However, the wall has 12 gates built into it. Therefore I think it is more accurate to say the function of the wall is to make sure all who enter the New Jerusalem do so by the gates. This is how you enter into Christ.

12 having a wall great and high; having twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

One might be confused that the names on the gates by which we enter into the New Jerusalem are the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. This might seem to be Old Testament, similar to the book of James being written to the twelve tribes in the dispersion. But once again, we can make sense of this with Matthew 18. Joseph could have condemned 10 of his brothers, exposing their sin. His mercy opened the door for them to enter in. For ten of them being shown mercy was their entrance into the kingdom, for Joseph it was showing mercy that gave him an entrance. If he had not shown mercy he also would not have entered in. He would have been vindicated, gotten revenge, but his dreams would never have been realized. Mercy is likened to that pearl that covers the offending sand grain. For Benjamin he also benefited from the mercy shown. If his ten brothers had been excluded, and if Joseph had never realized his dreams, what would be left for him? Our experience in the LRC falls into these three categories. Many sinned and will need mercy. Some have to show mercy. And there will also be a few innocent bystanders, they are not in a position to show mercy, nor do they need mercy, but they will benefit all the same.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the several gates was of one pearl:

Also, please remember years later the tribe of Benjamin was almost cut off but for the mercy of the other tribes.

[HERn]

Darby Bible Translation
Again I say to you, that if two of you shall agree on the earth concerning any matter, whatsoever it may be that they shall ask, it shall come to them from my Father who is in [the] heavens.

Darby Bible Translation
For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them.

I'm not saying me and my wife when we are praying are "the" church, but we are part of the the church and God answers are prayers whether we are meeting with the local church of WL or not. There is not benefit in belonging to the local church of WL.

[ZNPaaneah]

25And the gates thereof shall in no wise be shut by day (for there shall be no night there): 26and they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it: 27and there shall in no wise enter into it anything unclean, or he that maketh an abomination and a lie: but only they that are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

This is quite amazing. How does this gate prevent those who make a lie, or who are unclean or an abomination from entering? Balaam, the false prophet, is an example of one who makes a lie. He figures prominently in the church in Pergamum. Jezebel is an abomination, she figures prominently in the church in Thyatira. Ten of the twelve tribes were involved in making a lie about what happened to Joseph. Certainly, many of those who are in the New Jerusalem were unclean. That is the brilliance of this gate.

A sand grain is an offending, foreign particle that the mollusk covers in nacre. A pearl is not composed solely of the nacre, but also includes the foreign particle, but it has been dealt with. Likewise, being inoculated from a disease means that you have already been exposed to it, dealt with it, and now have immunity to it.

There are many who come through these gates of mercy that “made a lie”, that is not in dispute, the point is not that they never did this in the past, the point is that they do not “make” a lie in the present. The city is filled with the immunity to those that make a lie because there are those who have previously been exposed to this and they have repented of it. Likewise with an abomination. Perhaps in the past that was their case but not now in the future. This is one form of protection that you get when you give mercy. It is a fearful thing for a liar or cheat to realize there are those observing him that can see through the charade. This is why Matt 18 says it is necessary that occasions of stumbling come. We have to be exposed to these liars, abominations and unclean in order to be inoculated.

There is a second connection between this gate and Matthew 18 which is equally brilliant. Scam artists feed off of others greed. The reason others are willing to suspend their caution and disregard certain protections is that they think they are getting a special deal that might be “illegal”. This opens them to being defrauded. However, you cannot enter this city unless you have “humbled yourself as a small child”. Arrogance and pride open you up to being the victim of a scam. Why did those in the LRC accept WL? Surely the thought that they were the “elite” christians who alone were faithful to the pure word played a role. Slandering all other Christians was not a “red flag” but rather “speaking the truth”. The abusive practices were not abusive, they were simply the price one pays to be elite. Repenting of this pride is the requirement to receive mercy to enter through this gate.