The local church, the Work and the New Testament Ministry

Drake · 01-18-2018, 01:15 PM

-1

Ohio,

I didn’t say you said that. You said the Church in Cleveland is a true local church. I asked what work of ministry they are affiliated with and you said you did not know. I said from their web the ministries they reference are Titus Chu, T. A. Sparks, and Watchman Nee. The Watchman Nee link physically connects the reader back to the Living Stream Ministry website.Then I said everything I have been discussing here comes from the three books by Watchman Nee concerning the ground of the church and the work of ministry is found on that LSM website. So then, it was I that said if the Church in Cleveland is a true local church so are the others that came from that same ministry, the same mold, that the Church in Cleveland came from. I then asked you if you wanted to change your vote and kick the Church in Cleveland to the curb since they reference the same ministry that produced the local churches you said were false local churches.

That same ministry shed light that the denominations are sin and Congregationalism is unscriptural. Therefore, the Church in Cleveland, by commending the reader to the teachings of Watchman Nee would certainly strongly suggest that the Church of Christ, a denomination, and the community church you mentioned are not a true local church. This does not mean you should turn a blind eye to the suffering of those brothers and sisters. You obviously were touched by their suffering and I am sure you and the christians you meet with will do everything possible to help them.

As far as 2 Corinthians please feel free to take them one by one..... make your case and I will respond in kind. I don’t agree with what you said but I don’t know what your argument is for those because you have not made one. I will respond to your arguments.

Thanks
Drake

Ohio · 01-18-2018, 04:36 PM

Would anyone like to unravel this doublespeak lawyering gibberish for me?

I'm sure we have some bright folks out there.

Let me get this straight. LSM spent months and dozens of booklets convincing their little world that the CinCleve was fit for a Whistler quarantine, and now this same CinCleve website proves that the only true LC's are those with LSM?

Drake, the church in Cleveland is a true church because they believe the gospel of our Lord Jesus, they hold the Bible as truth, they have elders overseeing the church, etc. It has nothing to do with some website links. If your criteria was correct, then any collection of people on earth with a savvy web designer and a couple of links could constitute a "true local church."

Did Jesus really say "I will build my church with good websites and the correct links."

Koinonia · 01-18-2018, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

I didn’t say you said that. You said the Church in Cleveland is a true local church...

Drake, do you consider the Church in Cleveland a "true local church"?

Drake · 01-19-2018, 04:47 AM

Ohio>”Drake, the church in Cleveland is a true church because they believe the gospel of our Lord Jesus, they hold the Bible as truth, they have elders overseeing the church, et”

Ohio, it is called summarizing for the benefit of the listeners, not lawyering. It is part of a sensible discourse. It also gives you the opportunity to identify where we saw the dialogue differently. Not it’s conclusions but the course.

According to the definition you provided above the local churches you called false are not false at all.

Drake

Ohio · 01-19-2018, 05:19 AM

If a ministry peddles the word of God are they a "true ministry."

Drake · 01-19-2018, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

If a ministry peddles the word of God are they a "true ministry."

If they were a true ministry and they did peddle the word of God I do not believe they would be very effective.

Why do you ask?

Drake

Ohio · 01-19-2018, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

If they were a true ministry and they did peddle the word of God I do not believe they would be very effective.

That's right, they are not very effective, at least not among real Christians in the body of Christ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

Why do you ask? Drake

This is a discussion forum for the LC movement and the ministry of W. Lee. Of course I should ask.

Lee and his Blendeds claimed for him a status as "today's Paul." Should not we then compare LSM and the ministry of WL to Paul?

Paul said, "For we are not like the many, peddling the word of God." WL and LSM are "like the many, peddling the word of God." This is evidenced by their IRS filing ($100M property, $20M income), their demand that all member LC's buy their books exclusively, their charges for semi-annual ministry meetings, demand that member LC's support DCP, etc.

They even charge widows and children for sitting part-time in video meetings. Talk about defrauding God's people!

Drake · 01-19-2018, 01:18 PM

-1

Ohio>"Why do you ask? Drake" This is a discussion forum for the LC movement and the ministry of W. Lee. Of course I should ask."

Ohio, of course you should ask. I asked "why" you were asking not how dare you ask. Sorry if I wasn't clear But I think I have your answer here:

Ohio>" "Paul said, "For we are not like the many, peddling the word of God." WL and LSM are "like the many, peddling the word of God." This is evidenced by their IRS filing ($100M property, $20M income), their demand that all member LC's buy their books exclusively, their charges for semi-annual ministry meetings, demand that member LC's support DCP, etc.
"
You are using the wrong teaching to make your point. Peddling in these verses do not mean just selling the word for profit, but it means to dilute the word and then passing it off as the real thing.... like watering down the wine. Unlike Paul and his workers who spoke in sincerity and did not hold back or adulterate the word... they did not peddle watered down wine but provided the real thing.

I have never known Brother Lee nor his co-workers to dilute the word.... I think if they did peddle the word of God they would be financially better off. But they don't and that is the price they pay for speaking the word unadulterated. Also, if the purpose and mission of LSM were to make a boatload of money then they would not offer the books on their website for free. They would not offer the Recovery Version for free to anyone who wants one. They would charge for conferences, they would charge to come speak at a local church... but they do none of that.... they will waive the training fee if the circumstances justify it.... and I have haven't heard a request for DCP funds for decades.... but I never heard a "demand" to support DCP as you say. Never.

You are confounding making money with mission. You have completely missed the motive.

Drake

Koinonia · 01-20-2018, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

Ohio>”Drake, the church in Cleveland is a true church because they believe the gospel of our Lord Jesus, they hold the Bible as truth, they have elders overseeing the church, et”

Ohio, it is called summarizing for the benefit of the listeners, not lawyering. It is part of a sensible discourse. It also gives you the opportunity to identify where we saw the dialogue differently. Not it’s conclusions but the course.

According to the definition you provided above the local churches you called false are not false at all.

Drake

Drake, do you believe the church in Cleveland is a "true local church"? If not, why not?

Koinonia · 01-22-2018, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koinonia

Drake, do you believe the church in Cleveland is a "true local church"? If not, why not?

Drake, are you able (or willing) to answer this question?

Boxjobox · 01-24-2018, 11:25 AM

If the New Testament ministry is "I own these concepts, these words, these spiritual ideas", and " I own every church I created", and " my business is going to be sure that everyone conforms to my concepts" and " what I produced is the real church, the real testimony". And the work of that ministry is to build the business- isn't that a major disconnect from church history? WL/LSM then owes the Lutherians and the Bretheren a lot of royalties, because WL took a lot of their concepts and words and sold them as his own.

Ohio · 01-24-2018, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxjobox

If the New Testament ministry is "I own these concepts, these words, these spiritual ideas", and " I own every church I created", and " my business is going to be sure that everyone conforms to my concepts" and " what I produced is the real church, the real testimony". And the work of that ministry is to build the business- isn't that a major disconnect from church history? WL/LSM then owes the Lutherians and the Bretheren a lot of royalties, because WL took a lot of their concepts and words and sold them as his own.

W. Lee was allowed to steal ideas from everyone he wanted, and then peddled them as his own. But try to "stand on his shoulders" and LSM will slap a lawsuit on you.

UntoHim · 01-24-2018, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koinonia

Drake, do you believe the church in Cleveland is a "true local church"? If not, why not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koinonia

Drake, are you able (or willing) to answer this question?

So Drake, my man. Have you been away from your computer? Your silence on this is deafening. It's not a trick question ya know....maybe your answer will be....but at least give koinonia the pleasure of a response on this one.

-

Drake · 02-02-2018, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

So Drake, my man. Have you been away from your computer? Your silence on this is deafening. It's not a trick question ya know....maybe your answer will be....but at least give koinonia the pleasure of a response on this one.

-

UntoHim,

Yes. I have been away.

I don’t know for sure. It is possible. As I have not been there for some time I do not know the actual practice. From the website it seems they might be so I assume they are unless i see something that proves differently.

Drake

01-18-2018, 01:15 PM	#1
Drake Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 2,075	The local church, the Work and the New Testament Ministry -1 Ohio, I didn’t say you said that. You said the Church in Cleveland is a true local church. I asked what work of ministry they are affiliated with and you said you did not know. I said from their web the ministries they reference are Titus Chu, T. A. Sparks, and Watchman Nee. The Watchman Nee link physically connects the reader back to the Living Stream Ministry website.Then I said everything I have been discussing here comes from the three books by Watchman Nee concerning the ground of the church and the work of ministry is found on that LSM website. So then, it was I that said if the Church in Cleveland is a true local church so are the others that came from that same ministry, the same mold, that the Church in Cleveland came from. I then asked you if you wanted to change your vote and kick the Church in Cleveland to the curb since they reference the same ministry that produced the local churches you said were false local churches. That same ministry shed light that the denominations are sin and Congregationalism is unscriptural. Therefore, the Church in Cleveland, by commending the reader to the teachings of Watchman Nee would certainly strongly suggest that the Church of Christ, a denomination, and the community church you mentioned are not a true local church. This does not mean you should turn a blind eye to the suffering of those brothers and sisters. You obviously were touched by their suffering and I am sure you and the christians you meet with will do everything possible to help them. As far as 2 Corinthians please feel free to take them one by one..... make your case and I will respond in kind. I don’t agree with what you said but I don’t know what your argument is for those because you have not made one. I will respond to your arguments. Thanks Drake

01-18-2018, 04:36 PM	#2
Ohio Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Greater Ohio Posts: 13,693	Re: The local church, the Work and the New Testament Ministry Would anyone like to unravel this doublespeak lawyering gibberish for me? I'm sure we have some bright folks out there. Let me get this straight. LSM spent months and dozens of booklets convincing their little world that the CinCleve was fit for a Whistler quarantine, and now this same CinCleve website proves that the only true LC's are those with LSM? Drake, the church in Cleveland is a true church because they believe the gospel of our Lord Jesus, they hold the Bible as truth, they have elders overseeing the church, etc. It has nothing to do with some website links. If your criteria was correct, then any collection of people on earth with a savvy web designer and a couple of links could constitute a "true local church." Did Jesus really say "*I will build my church with good websites and the correct links*." __________________ Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!

01-19-2018, 04:47 AM	#4
Drake Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 2,075	Re: The local church, the Work and the New Testament Ministry Ohio>”Drake, the church in Cleveland is a true church because they believe the gospel of our Lord Jesus, they hold the Bible as truth, they have elders overseeing the church, et” Ohio, it is called summarizing for the benefit of the listeners, not lawyering. It is part of a sensible discourse. It also gives you the opportunity to identify where we saw the dialogue differently. Not it’s conclusions but the course. According to the definition you provided above the local churches you called false are not false at all. Drake

01-19-2018, 05:19 AM	#5
Ohio Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Greater Ohio Posts: 13,693	Re: The local church, the Work and the New Testament Ministry If a ministry peddles the word of God are they a "true ministry." __________________ Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!

01-19-2018, 01:18 PM	#8
Drake Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 2,075	Re: The local church, the Work and the New Testament Ministry -1 Ohio>"Why do you ask? Drake" This is a discussion forum for the LC movement and the ministry of W. Lee. Of course I should ask." Ohio, of course you should ask. I asked "why" you were asking not how dare you ask. Sorry if I wasn't clear But I think I have your answer here: Ohio>" "Paul said, "*For we are not like the many, peddling the word of God." WL and LSM are "like the many, peddling the word of God*." This is evidenced by their IRS filing ($100M property, $20M income), their demand that all member LC's buy their books exclusively, their charges for semi-annual ministry meetings, demand that member LC's support DCP, etc. " You are using the wrong teaching to make your point. Peddling in these verses do not mean just selling the word for profit, but it means to dilute the word and then passing it off as the real thing.... like watering down the wine. Unlike Paul and his workers who spoke in sincerity and did not hold back or adulterate the word... they did not peddle watered down wine but provided the real thing. I have never known Brother Lee nor his co-workers to dilute the word.... I think if they did peddle the word of God they would be financially better off. But they don't and that is the price they pay for speaking the word unadulterated. Also, if the purpose and mission of LSM were to make a boatload of money then they would not offer the books on their website for free. They would not offer the Recovery Version for free to anyone who wants one. They would charge for conferences, they would charge to come speak at a local church... but they do none of that.... they will waive the training fee if the circumstances justify it.... and I have haven't heard a request for DCP funds for decades.... but I never heard a "demand" to support DCP as you say. Never. You are confounding making money with mission. You have completely missed the motive. Drake

01-24-2018, 11:25 AM	#11
Boxjobox Moderated Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 829	Re: The local church, the Work and the New Testament Ministry If the New Testament ministry is "I own these concepts, these words, these spiritual ideas", and " I own every church I created", and " my business is going to be sure that everyone conforms to my concepts" and " what I produced is the real church, the real testimony". And the work of that ministry is to build the business- isn't that a major disconnect from church history? WL/LSM then owes the Lutherians and the Bretheren a lot of royalties, because WL took a lot of their concepts and words and sold them as his own.