First Post kumbaya

[JJ]

Originally Posted by kumbaya

Wow. Well I definitely don't believe it's ok for a church to sue unless it's some sort of equivalent to a "life or death" situation. It's not turning the other cheek, for sure. Also, I think the fact that its not talked about to members is wrong.

Would it be entirely crazy to vote on these matters? I personally would not want my tithes to go to these lawsuits. I wonder how that money is appropriated....

I find apologetic discussions very interesting but it's definitely sad to see divisiveness over them. Those debates can really go too far...

I've read the concernedbrothers page- thought it sounded well done and tactful.

We all have our opinions on things, I think the issues of the faith are the most important and maybe it's easier for me bc I'm just a little "hippy-ish" at heart, and I know it's important to study doctrine, but there has to be balance. That being said though, I'm glad there's people that aren't like me and get into the nitty gritty of the translations and meanings. Without that, we could REALLY be off course! We can all learn from each other though and we all have our share of Jesus to share with each other, hopefully

Lawsuits being wrong is not a matter of opinion. It is explicitly prohibited by scripture http://biblehub.com/blb/1_corinthians/6.htm

The Living Stream Ministry (LSM) and later “The Defense and Confirmation Project (run by LSM leaders) openly used their funds, collected from “donations”, sales of their literature, to sue other believers, and encouraged “the saints” to contribute (donate) even more to support them!

This is to their shame! Using Paul’s words, not mine.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by JJ

Lawsuits being wrong is not a matter of opinion. It is explicitly prohibited by scripture http://biblehub.com/blb/1_corinthians/6.htm

The Living Stream Ministry (LSM) and later “The Defense and Confirmation Project (run by LSM leaders) openly used their funds, collected from “donations”, sales of their literature, to sue other believers, and encouraged “the saints” to contribute (donate) even more to support them!

This is to their shame! Using Paul’s words, not mine.

One of the political games that was played after Lee's passing was that LSM would stop bashing Titus Chu from the podium, and in exchange, all the Midwest LC's would send money each month to LSM/DCP to cover the costs of the Heritage House lawsuits that went all the way to the SCOTUS.

The Blendeds, however, never did honor their end of the deal. They continued to bash the Midwest, sowing suspicions into the saints at all their "Feasts." The Midwest LC's then mostly stopped attending their Feasts. Later on then were Quarantined, and LSM used the money to sue the Midwest LC's.

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by Ohio

One of the political games that was played after Lee's passing was that LSM would stop bashing Titus Chu from the podium, and in exchange, all the Midwest LC's would send money each month to LSM/DCP to cover the costs of the Heritage House lawsuits that went all the way to the SCOTUS.

The Blendeds, however, never did honor their end of the deal. They continued to bash the Midwest, sowing suspicions into the saints at all their "Feasts." The Midwest LC's then mostly stopped attending their Feasts. Later on then were Quarantined, and LSM used the money to sue the Midwest LC's.

They used the money the Midwest churches gave them- to sue the MW churches? No wonder there are so many “open letters” on afaithword page about this. They must be desperately trying to cover their tracks if that is true!

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by JJ

Lawsuits being wrong is not a matter of opinion. It is explicitly prohibited by scripture http://biblehub.com/blb/1_corinthians/6.htm

The Living Stream Ministry (LSM) and later “The Defense and Confirmation Project (run by LSM leaders) openly used their funds, collected from “donations”, sales of their literature, to sue other believers, and encouraged “the saints” to contribute (donate) even more to support them!

This is to their shame! Using Paul’s words, not mine.

Funny- for being so “bold” in their actions/stance-they certainly don’t talk about it much to the local churches (at least in the locality I was in).

They’re exploiting sweet people who I believe give (many) 10% or more of their income. I believe their hearts are good so it’s covered if they don’t know where it’s going. I wish more light and awareness would shine on this issue

Thank you, I’m going to read those verses about suing...

I specifically remember (in the 80’s) the lawsuits being talked about in our home and my dad saying, “We didn’t have a choice!”

Well, that wasn’t my dad’s choice to make. I’m in no way blaming him. But it’s interesting that he said “we” when I’m sure the decision wasn't his. He was told the decision and he went along with it-trusting the ones leading.

Thanks for the verse link!

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by kumbaya

I specifically remember (in the 80’s) the lawsuits being talked about in our home and my dad saying, “We didn’t have a choice!”

Well, that wasn’t my dad’s choice to make. I’m in no way blaming him. But it’s interesting that he said “we” when I’m sure the decision wasn't his. He was told the decision and he went along with it-trusting the ones leading.

Talking about those 80's lawsuit. There was a certain elder who didn't go along with it and it was pointed out "someone is not one with us". A few years later he ousted out of the Church in Rosemead.
Whether one wants to accept it or not peer pressure is very prevalent in the local churches whether you're one of the young people or a respected elder.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

Talking about those 80's lawsuit. There was a certain elder who didn't go along with it and it was pointed out "someone is not one with us". A few years later he ousted out of the Church in Rosemead.
Whether one wants to accept it or not peer pressure is very prevalent in the local churches whether you're one of the young people or a respected elder.

Concerning the Heritage House Lawsuits that went to the SCOTUS, Titus Chu and the Midwest LC's refused to sign up.

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Concerning the Heritage House Lawsuits that went to the SCOTUS, Titus Chu and the Midwest LC's refused to sign up.

Do you know if there a thread that discusses all the numerous "open letters" on the afaithfulword site? It looks so exhaustive, I haven't checked it out too much.

Seems like they're obviously attempting to "justify" these quarantines and their behavior....

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by kumbaya

Do you know if there a thread that discusses all the numerous "open letters" on the afaithfulword site? It looks so exhaustive, I haven't checked it out too much. Seems like they're obviously attempting to "justify" these quarantines and their behavior....

It is exhaustive!

During the midst of the Anaheim-Midwest "tract wars," one day in the mail I received "anonymously" from a family member LSM's color-coded 28 Booklet "Attack Pack." They were afaithfulworddotcom all pretty in pink ... And in blue ...

They were "poison inoculation" for the faithful. Twisted truths all based on the vast writings of Nee and Lee.

Not sure if we had threads discussing each booklet. We (I?) probably spent more time reading the articles on concerned brothersdotcom. At least those articles resembled the truths of the Bible as compared to LSM's distortions.

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by Terry

Talking about those 80's lawsuit. There was a certain elder who didn't go along with it and it was pointed out "someone is not one with us". A few years later he ousted out of the Church in Rosemead.
Whether one wants to accept it or not peer pressure is very prevalent in the local churches whether you're one of the young people or a respected elder.

Peer pressure or "feeling of one-ness?" ick

yes, get your drift.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Terry

Talking about those 80's lawsuit. There was a certain elder who didn't go along with it and it was pointed out "someone is not one with us". A few years later he ousted out of the Church in Rosemead.
Whether one wants to accept it or not peer pressure is very prevalent in the local churches whether you're one of the young people or a respected elder.

Yes, I recall Dan Toole (an elder in Fullerton, CA at the time) announced the first group of lawsuits were being initiated after “a training” in Anaheim (1980 I think) saying they were necessary because the churches’ growth was being hindered by the “slanderous books”, and there was a need to “appeal to Caesar” like Paul did. Brother Lee said he didn’t want to do it, but had been pressed into it by leading brothers who said something needed to be done. And, the lawsuit was for $1.00 because it wasn’t about money, but the truth.

One of the elders in my locality objected on the basis of Paul’s word in 1 Cor 6. He was immediately “quarantined” and was either expelled from the church or voluntarily left (there were private meetings with him I wasn’t in).

We were told by the remaining elders that “he is too much in his mind”. “Satan is twisting his thoughts”. Don’t talk to him or his wife or you might get “gangrene”. Being young and gullible (and not well schooled in scripture) that scared me, so I participated in the church-wide shunning of him and his family.

That was quite disturbing to me, because I had spent a fair amount of time at his house fellowshipping over meals, and felt close to he, his wife, and children. But, I thought it was the right thing to do at the time. It makes me sick and sad thinking about it now.

It was my first taste of a local church quarantine (it wouldn’t be the last).

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by JJ

Don’t talk to him or his wife or you might get “gangrene”.

Substitute "gangrene" with "leprosy" or "poison" and the result is the same.
It's like a card to be employed whenever someone is expressing a point of view contrary to that of LSM. Of course it is also tainted with hypocrisy.
A brother can be slandered without needing anything of substance.
If you or I object to the speaking then we may be singled out for not being inoculated against the poison.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Terry

Substitute "gangrene" with "leprosy" or "poison" and the result is the same.
It's like a card to be employed whenever someone is expressing a point of view contrary to that of LSM. Of course it is also tainted with hypocrisy.
A brother can be slandered without needing anything of substance.
If you or I object to the speaking then we may be singled out for not being inoculated against the poison.

Agreed. I’m glad to finally be clear about it, and to be able to warn others about it.