Warning in Revelation 22:18-19 and the RcV footnotes

[YP0534]

I don't think a lot of Lee's stuff is bad. In fact, I believe some here may recall that I have theorized/discovered that much of it may actually be just recycled Sunday School lessons from the late 19th/early 20th centuries. Regardless, this is exactly the sort of study that should be done with Lee's or anyone else's materials. I'm thankful for CMW's study and encourage all to engage in a similar exploration of God's Word. If what Lee has said is of God, it will stand. If it is not, we can be confident that it will fall. Honest and critical scrutiny with much consideration and prayer is not to be avoided but rather pursued.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by YP0534

I don't think a lot of Lee's stuff is bad. In fact, I believe some here may recall that I have theorized/discovered that much of it may actually be just recycled Sunday School lessons from the late 19th/early 20th centuries. Regardless, this is exactly the sort of study that should be done with Lee's or anyone else's materials. I'm thankful for CMW's study and encourage all to engage in a similar exploration of God's Word. If what Lee has said is of God, it will stand. If it is not, we can be confident that it will fall. Honest and critical scrutiny with much consideration and prayer is not to be avoided but rather pursued.

Thanks YPO, I also don't believe a lot of Lee's works were bad. It's just that he did not receive everything he wrote and taught directly from the Word of God. He studied, yes. But much of what he wrote, was already written by other servants of the Lord.

[countmeworthy]

There is a saying that the Lord works in mysterious ways. I'm sure we've all had those moments where we can agree and say 'Yep, He sure does.'

Over the years, I have read about the crowns spoken of in the Bible but never really gave them much thought. Then last year, a friend in Christ mentioned that we will be getting crowns at the Judgment seat of Christ. It didn't sink in then either. A few months ago, I came across a study on the Judgment seat of Christ and this is when I began a serious study on the crowns prayerfully.

If you knew me personally, you would know I'm very down to earth. Yet I am blessed to be able to spend a lot of time reading, praying and studying the Word of God, with Praise, Worship and Thanksgiving. There is a lot I wish to say but I want to stick to the 'Crowns' sprinkled with a tid bit on the book of remembrance found in Malachi 3:16-18, and the scriptures on wood, hay & stubble.

So as my studies began, I began to pray I would not only be counted worthy to escape all the things that are about to come to pass, that I may hear the words "Well done my good & faithful servant. Enter into the Joy of the Lord", I began to pray to be counted worthy to receive the Crown of Righteousness, the Crown of Glory, the Incorruptible Crown, the Crown of Rejoicing and the Crown of Life. Then the Lord spoke to my heart to pray for all the saints to be counted worthy to receive the crowns too, not just me. And thus, this has become my prayer.

So here is a little more regarding the crowns:
The Incorruptible Crown is also known as a Victor's Crown. In the 'olden days', the athletes would receive wreaths after winning a race. We've all seen those pictures of Ceasar wearing a wreath on his head. That crown was corruptible. Jesus wore a crown of thrones on HIS Head for our sake. Ours will be INCORRUPTIBLE.

The Crown of Life is the Martyr's crown. We know there are many, many believers who physically died for the Lord and the sake of the gospel. Many more will die for their unwaivering Faith in Christ Jesus during the Tribulation. Those who endure trials and tribulation & Persecution for the sake of the gospel will also be blessed with this Crown. Obviously, not all of us go through 'persecutions'. But life is filled with trials & tribulations & to those who pass the test, this crown will be given. (James 1:12)

The Crown of Glory is the Elder's Crown reserved for those who fed the flock. I am convinced any one of us can receive this crown. It is not reserved for those in leadership positions only. As we minister to one another, building up one another in Christ, praying for one another, I believe we are working for this Crown.
The Crown of Righteousness is reserved for those who are watching and Loving the Appearing of our Lord's return. It is not enough to be believe Jesus is returning some day for us. Revelation 22 ends with the prayer: Come Lord Jesus. Come. The Spirit and the Bride say "Come". I pray this everyday.

The Crown of Rejoicing is the soul winner's crown. I believe if we win ONE soul to the Kingdom, this qualifies us for this Crown as we rejoice in their salvation.

Our salvation cannot be lost but the following verses tell us we can lose our crowns.
Lamentations 5:16

The crown is fallen from our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned!

Revelation 3:11

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Now, my personal opinion is the crowns are not going to be like the earthly crowns we have here on earth. Christ is our CROWN of GLORY. I believe these crowns are going to reveal GOD'S GLORY in us and on us.

Kings wear crowns and as we co-reign with Christ, the world during the MILLENEAL Reign will know we were rewarded for dying to self and obeying the leading of the HOLY SPIRIT in us all the while giving God the Glory & Praise with Thanksgiving through Christ Jesus whom we LOVE and ADORE.

I believe I received revelation today regarding gold, silver and precious stones vs wood, hay and stubble.
1 Corinthians 3:11-13

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

There is a book of Remembrance found in
Malachi 3:16-18

Then they that feared the LORD spoke often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon His Name.
And they shall be Mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Again, My personal opinion is at the Judgment seat of Christ, God will open the Book of Remembrance on us. The book will be filled with 'memories' of how we Honored the LORD after we got saved. Everytime we speak of the Great and Awesome things of the LORD to each other, it is recorded. When we think about HIM, it is recorded. If we served the Lord in our carnal flesh, it will be recorded there too and thus our works will be tried by fire. That will be the wood, hay and stubble. If there is a lot of wood, hay and stubble found in the book of Remembrance, we're not going to have much gold, silver and precious stones eminating from us.

Since EVERY SAVED believer will stand at the Judgment seat of Christ, it is there where the JUDGE will determine who will be worthy of the crowns to rule and reign with Christ.
We've all seen the 3 inner circles pertaining to the spirit, soul and body. I think we all know they correspond to the Holy of Holies, the Inner Court and the outer court.
Those of us with the crowns will be worthy to sit on the thrones reserved for us in the Holy of Holies. Some will be not as worthy to receive crowns but will possibly assist us by being assigned to live in the inner court. Those who got saved by the skin of their teeth will be living in the outercourt during the 1000 yr reign. I believe we will be teaching them the deep things of the LORD. I believe we will also have practical rewards they will not have.

May we ALL be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to be crowned as priests and kings unto our God, worthy to reign with Christ.
Thanks again for reading my post. I truly believe the LORD put it in my spirit to write this.
Your friend and sister in Christ,
Carol
__________________
LUKE 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

[Timotheist]

CMW,

Long after I had been deLeed and I began to research things like this for myself, I was often dismayed by Lee's assertions in the RCV footnotes.

Good study bibles will summarize alternate interpretations even if the author favors one over the others. Also, responsible authors will give credit to the originators of certain interpretations, if such is known.

Lee did neither of these things.

Most of Lee's eschatology was inherited by his exposure to the teachings of the Plymouth brethren, but where does he give an acknowledgement in the RCV? This borders on plaigerism, at least morally if not legally.

Darby and the PB movement deserve credit where credit is due, and criticism where criticism is due. I very much doubt if Lee would have believed in a pre-trib rapture of the overcomers had he not been led that way by Darby's theories.

I happen to know why Lee believed that the 24 elders were angelic beings, for my personal research led me to the source of the interpretation.

The book of Enoch, which is considered non-canonical, contains within it a very detailed description of heaven and the angelic order. And by comparing this description to that of John's vision, one could come to the conclusion that the 24 elders are angels.

But where does Lee refer to Enoch to support this interpretation? He would not, because this would be criticized. Instead, it is thrown out there in the footnotes as an assertion without explanation or supporting evidence.

[countmeworthy]

[QUOTE=Timotheist;6666]

Good study bibles will summarize alternate interpretations even if the author favors one over the others. Also, responsible authors will give credit to the originators of certain interpretations, if such is known.
Lee did neither of these things.
Most of Lee's eschatology was inherited by his exposure to the teachings of the Plymouth brethren, but where does he give an acknowledgement in the RCV? This borders on plaigerism, at least morally if not legally.

Great info Timo. Thank You soo much. You are absolutely right on about good study bibles and correct Lee never gave credit to the originators of certain interpretations. He simply stated he 'stood on shoulders' of such people like Watchman Nee & the Plymouth Brethren, gathering some other info from Pember.

God has used authors, such as Clarence Larkin to give me an excellent understanding of the book of Revelation and the Dispensational Truth and Rightly Dividing the Word. Larkin was an American born in the 1800s and died in 1925. He has several books that explain the Creation and the Pre-Adamic age. In fact, he uses the famous 3 inner circles we all thought, OR at least I THOUGHT came from Nee. But Nee was born around 1918 I believe. He would have been a toddler or a very young child to come up with the 3 circles! Larkin has amazing charts!! Keep in mind he DIED in 1925, publishing much of his work 2-3 years before his death and 2 decades before ISRAEL was restored as a nation!

But he is not the only author I refer to. There are others.

Like many, I had no relationship with the LORD before I got saved, or at best a very shallow one. I had never read the bible. Religion was a turn off for me as was for most of us. Everything I learned in the LC was Revelation to me. Little did I know, the LORD had not anointed Lee to be the 'oracle of this age' as we were led to believe. He and Nee did not come up with the 3 circles we are soo familiar with!

I'm not saying God did not use Nee & Lee but for them, especially Lee, but the LSM is somehow convinced no one has ever been used by God, like Lee was. How pathetic to believe this!

Darby and the PB movement deserve credit where credit is due, and criticism where criticism is due. I very much doubt if Lee would have believed in a pre-trib rapture of the overcomers had he not been led that way by Darby's theories.

I happen to be Pre-Trib but Lee's explanation of the rapture is so incredibly confusing. I don't consider him Pre-Trib. And I certainly do NOT agree with his view that the first horseman of the apocalypse is the gospel! SHEESH! No wonder his Rapture theory is all confused! I'll go into that in another thread. I've done a LOT of research on the Trib theories..Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, which I think, Lee probably leans more on. Not sure 'cause his explanation as I said, is soooo confusing! and there is the Post Trib view. There is also Pre-Wrath, Pre-Millinielsism, and Post-Millinealism and then there is a branch who are Preterists and the Kingdom Now bunch. Personally, I live as if the LORD is coming any day now but carry on as if He could delay as well. I sure hope we are not around for the TRIB, especially the last half! Life is getting more & more difficult as it is and the world is growing darker by the day! BUT IF we are, God will certainly supply us supernaturally I believe for the sake of the Gospel and to His GLORY.

I happen to know why Lee believed that the 24 elders were angelic beings, for my personal research led me to the source of the interpretation.
The book of Enoch, which is considered non-canonical, contains within it a very detailed description of heaven and the angelic order.

Ohhhhhhhhhh ! He read the book of Enoch and never shared it with us (to my knowledge.) I get it now! I wonder if Albert & Bilbo from the other forum know this ??? If they do, they have not revealed it and probably won't. I have been wanting to read the book of Enoch but have not gotten a hold of it yet. Now, I can't comment on it because I have not read it, but from what I have heard, it is a very, insightful and very good book. That said, there IS an order of hierchy among the angels for the Word of God describes to some extent the Cherubim, the Seraphim, and each of us have angels assigned to us. Those I know who have commented on it have NEVER said the angels had crowns/thrones..just an hierchy. But I don't know what it says for sure. Btw, I'm reading a very good book on Angels right now called Angels that gather by Paul Keith Davis.

And by comparing this description to that of John's vision, one could come to the conclusion that the 24 elders are angels.

Do you know if the book describes them with crowns & sitting on thrones or at best eludes that they would? Like I said, I do believe there is a heavenly hierchy among them. Lucifer was the chief musician and the closest angel to God I think.

But where does Lee refer to Enoch to support this interpretation? He would not, because this would be criticized. Instead, it is thrown out there in the footnotes as an assertion without explanation or supporting evidence.

But of course! Imagine having the book of Enoch at the LC bookstore!

THANKS for the heads up Timotheous! We all learned something from you today! Carol

[Timotheist]

You can find Enoch posted online for free. You can copy and paste the text into your favorite editor.

It has been a while since I studied this book, so I cannot recall the use of crowns or thrones to describe the angels.

But I do recall another source of Lee dogma as being taken from Enoch.

I remember Lee believed that demons were disembodied spirits that were the off-spring of angels mating with women in the days of Noah. I had always wondered where he got that idea.

Enoch, which recounts the days of Noah in more detail than does Genesis, explicitly states this.

[countmeworthy]

[QUOTE=Timotheist;6668]

You can find Enoch posted online for free. You can copy and paste the text into your favorite editor.

Great minds think a like. I'm scanning through the book of Enoch on line now!! I have not come across anything about crowns or thrones ascribed to angels thus far. Uriel is mentioned as a high ranking angel though.

Sure is written 'different'.

I remember Lee believed that demons were disembodied spirits that were the off-spring of angels mating with women in the days of Noah. I had always wondered where he got that idea.

Yes...and I do believe he was correct in that teaching. Those off-spring were called Nephalim. Goliath is supposed to be a Nephalim. He was a GIANT in the land. And he was not the only one either. There is A LOT of info on the Nephalim these days. I'm still trying to grasp the idea how angels (fallen) could have produced sperm to have offspring. But apparently they did. That is why there is a class of fallen angels who are locked up in hell reserved for judgment:
2 Peter 2:4

4...God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

Now, based on the rest of the bible, we know we wrestle against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. And these are the fallen angels at work.
...different from demons who are the disembodied spirits of the Nephalim, (mighty men of renown) needing a habitation to exist in. They also can die but not so with angels. Demons can die because they are hybrids, the offspring of the sexual union between a fallen angel and a woman. UGH!!!

Enoch, which recounts the days of Noah in more detail than does Genesis, explicitly states this.

Yes, Don't know if you are familiar with Perry Stone, he has an interesting teaching on the Nephalim and some of it comes from the book of Enoch. Some people believe the Nephalim will return/re-surface in the last days because the last days are compared to the days of Noah and vs 5 then says:

if He did not spare the ancient world when He brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;....vs 9: then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment

I say: COME LORD JESUS! COME!!!!

P.S....we're getting away from the CROWNS !!