Women's Role

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Excellent, you must have a better explanation then for Paul's word about how nature teaches us that if a man have long hair it is a shame to him.

Evangelical, when are you going to give us your insight?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Evangelical, when are you going to give us your insight?

Thanks for the reminder.

It's not that clear what Paul meant by "nature". "second nature" is a likely interpretation and that speaking of a cultural tradition at the time.

I don't think it means anything from the animal world, because there is such diversity and there are little examples to think about where a male has short hair and female has long hair.

Jewish and Greek culture at the time favored short hair. So I think "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him?" can be interpreted to mean

"does not even our own Jewish or Greek traditions tell us that having long hair is a dishonor to him".

Nazarites were the exception of course.

[UntoHim]

Ok, I think the whole head covering and hair length thing has run it's course. Lets move on to bigger and better things, shall we?
-

[John]

Since we’ve been scrutinizing biblical requirements for Christian women down to the level of what’s on their heads, maybe we should also take a look at how the men measure up. Since this forum is about the Local Church, what better person to begin with than with Witness Lee?

Question: Does Witness Lee measure up to the requirements in 1st Timothy 3:

• Blameless? No.
• Husband of one wife? No.
• Of good behavior? No.
• Not greedy of filthy lucre? No.
• Patient? No.
• One having his children in subjection? No.
• Of good report of them that are without? No.

I suppose that one could evade by stating that the requirements for an apostle aren’t as stringent as those for an elder. Maybe, but it tells me something when the leader didn’t even measure up to the requirements for an elder (and probably not even a deacon)!

[ZNPaaneah]

I think it is an excellent comparison that everyone should measure up to. Yes, you can still be a prophet or apostle or evangelist if you were a major failure in this area, but one would hope that your repentance was central to your ministry, which of course it was not with WL.

Everyone values "the vision" over these qualifications. That is why they are easily deceived. If your wife has a testimony against you, or your kids, or those in the community why are you ignoring that? Because of the siren song of the sales pitch -- "vision of the age", etc., etc.

[Evangelical]

I think ZNP is wrong that an elder must be married because of this:

https://www.gotquestions.org/unmarri...con-elder.html

The issue is not the elder’s or deacon’s marital status, but his moral and sexual purity.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I think ZNP is wrong that an elder must be married because of this:
https://www.gotquestions.org/unmarri...con-elder.html
The issue is not the elder’s or deacon’s marital status, but his moral and sexual purity.

How exactly would a church determine "moral and sexual purity"? And if he is not the husband of one wife I assume he also has not led his family well, no children are in subjection. So you are not eliminating one criteria, you are eliminating two.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by John

Since we’ve been scrutinizing biblical requirements for Christian women down to the level of what’s on their heads, maybe we should also take a look at how the men measure up. Since this forum is about the Local Church, what better person to begin with than with Witness Lee?

Question: Does Witness Lee measure up to the requirements in 1st Timothy 3:

• Blameless? No.
• Husband of one wife? No.
• Of good behavior? No.
• Not greedy of filthy lucre? No.
• Patient? No.
• One having his children in subjection? No.
• Of good report of them that are without? No.

I suppose that one could evade by stating that the requirements for an apostle aren’t as stringent as those for an elder. Maybe, but it tells me something when the leader didn’t even measure up to the requirements for an elder (and probably not even a deacon)!

Even Abraham, Moses, David or Solomon would not measure up.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Even Abraham, Moses, David or Solomon would not measure up.

The comparison is only partial. At least they repented of their sin.

Lee lived it and defended it. Lee was like David being confronted by Nathan and having Nathan executed for daring to speak up.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Even Abraham, Moses, David or Solomon would not measure up.

Moses? Why? Because 40 years prior to God speaking to him he sinned?

There is absolutely no way to imply that Paul was saying that sinners saved by grace were ineligible.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Moses? Why? Because 40 years prior to God speaking to him he sinned?

There is absolutely no way to imply that Paul was saying that sinners saved by grace were ineligible.

No. I thought Moses had two wives, but that might not be correct. More than one wife was common for the patriarchs.

All male patriarchs by the way. Any biblical examples of important women having two or more husbands?