Justification for One City-One Church dogma?

[Drake]

Nell>"I believe we should say what the Bible says and not invent terms to support our dogma"

Ironically, the words "terms", and "dogma" are not found in the Bible.

"Trinity" is not found in the Bible but the concept is so someone invented the term to describe the concept.

It's just the way we communicate.

Drake

[Drake]

Jake>"Under ideal conditions Christians wouldn't see any barriers between themselves, and would feel totally free to worship together always..."

Why ideal? When has there ever been ideal conditions? You're justifying the erection of barriers. You are adding a condition for unity that is not found in the Bible.

The Apostle charged that there be "no divisions among you", he did not say "under ideal conditions there will be no divisions among you".

By injecting the notion of ideal conditions you facilitate division. There are no ideal conditions, there are always challenges, disagreements, conflicts in personality, etc. No one should think their differences cannot be solved just because conditions are not ideal. That becomes an excuse to erect barriers and create divisions.

Conversely, if you understand that you with all your problems and differences and the other believers with all theirs are to be the testimony of the oneness of Christ in the place you all live then you will work towards that. You will not make excuses for erecting barriers and creating divisions, but rather you will come together to resolve those differences, allow the Lord to work in you, and maintain the testimony of the oneness. The symbol of a lamp stand in each city mentioned in Revelation 2&3 represents that concept. There is no room for more than one lamp stand per city just because conditions are not ideal.

Drake

[awareness]

So ideal conditions can be replaced with another ideal condition? Is the new ideal condition better than Jake's ideal condition? Just askin'.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

So ideal conditions can be replaced with another ideal condition? Is the new ideal condition better than Jake's ideal condition? Just askin'.

.. and just sayin.....Until the Lord returns I do not believe any ideal condition will ever exist. That would suggest to me at least that the problems are left to perfect the saints as each situation is unique and personal. Lacking ideal conditions are not an excuse to erect barriers and create divisions. Brother Jake is not alone in his viewpoint as is evident by the numerous divisions in Christendom.

Drake

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by awareness

So ideal conditions can be replaced with another ideal condition? Is the new ideal condition better than Jake's ideal condition? Just askin'.

That is correct only if you refuse to admit the condition is a division or barrier. Also it must be promoting the church of Witness Lee.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Jake>"Under ideal conditions Christians wouldn't see any barriers between themselves, and would feel totally free to worship together always..."

Why ideal? When has there ever been ideal conditions? You're justifying the erection of barriers. You are adding a condition for unity that is not found in the Bible.

The Apostle charged that there be "no divisions among you", he did not say "under ideal conditions there will be no divisions among you".

By injecting the notion of ideal conditions you facilitate division. There are no ideal conditions, there are always challenges, disagreements, conflicts in personality, etc. No one should think their differences cannot be solved just because conditions are not ideal. That becomes an excuse to erect barriers and create divisions.

Conversely, if you understand that you with all your problems and differences and the other believers with all theirs are to be the testimony of the oneness of Christ in the place you all live then you will work towards that. You will not make excuses for erecting barriers and creating divisions, but rather you will come together to resolve those differences, allow the Lord to work in you, and maintain the testimony of the oneness. The symbol of a lamp stand in each city mentioned in Revelation 2&3 represents that concept. There is no room for more than one lamp stand per city just because conditions are not ideal.

Drake

Teacher teach thyself.

This is so rich. For the renowned defender of LSM to tell others not to erect barriers in their fellowship is just more than I can handle.

Have you ever read the story of Paul Hon's brother Henry? He just recently got cut off from the fellowship for paying too much attention to home meetings and vital group gatherings. Imagine that! Right out of WL's own playbook. I guess ole brother Henry Hon was just not "up-to-date" as LSM loves to say.

The Blendeds you defend are not just the best fence builders in history. They can build fences and erect barriers that move over time. What may once have brought you into fellowship now can get you cut off from the fellowship. Sounds a whole lot like all the other storms and quarantines I have read about.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Teacher teach thyself.

This is so rich. For the renowned defender of LSM to tell others not to erect barriers in their fellowship is just more than I can handle.

Have you ever read the story of Paul Hon's brother Henry? He just recently got cut off from the fellowship for paying too much attention to home meetings and vital group gatherings. Imagine that! Right out of WL's own playbook. I guess ole brother Henry Hon was just not "up-to-date" as LSM loves to say.

The Blendeds you defend are not just the best fence builders in history. They can build fences and erect barriers that move over time. What may once have brought you into fellowship now can get you cut off from the fellowship. Sounds a whole lot like all the other storms and quarantines I have read about.

Isn't bro. Hon's decision to fellowship in homes like erecting a wall between his fellowship and the denominations who disagree with meeting in homes?

Not all denominations would agree that meeting in homes is the right way, and may even frown upon the practice. I think the liturgical churches might see it this way.

Does Brother Hon's church join a denominational church occasionally, even a Catholic one?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Isn't bro. Hon's decision to fellowship in homes like erecting a wall between his fellowship and the denominations who disagree with meeting in homes?

Not all denominations would agree that meeting in homes is the right way, and may even frown upon the practice. I think the liturgical churches might see it this way.

Does Brother Hon's church join a denominational church occasionally, even a Catholic one?

And there you have it folks!

Another advocate for LSM condemns Henry Hon for meeting "house to house" and not in a God-ordained meeting hall with the LSM sanctioned name of the "no name" local church on its signboard.

Does anyone else remember the chaos of the "New Way," with elders locking the doors to their meeting hall on Lord's Day morning? All because Witness Lee said to.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And there you have it folks!

Another advocate for LSM condemns Henry Hon for meeting "house to house" and not in a God-ordained meeting hall with the LSM sanctioned name of the "no name" local church on its signboard.

Does anyone else remember the chaos of the "New Way," with elders locking the doors to their meeting hall on Lord's Day morning? All because Witness Lee said to.

Why the double standards from you ?

Why is the local churches ("LSM") divisive for meeting in a meeting hall and not meeting with denominations, and Hon's fellowship are not also divisive for meeting in homes and not with denominations?

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Why the double standards from you ?

Why is the local churches ("LSM") divisive for meeting in a meeting hall and not meeting with denominations, and Hon's fellowship are not also divisive for meeting in homes and not with denominations?

Is Hon spreading the lie that his denomination is the one true church who has recovering biblical truths and propagates the teaching of a modern oracle of the time? Is he claiming a desire for oneness, but practicing division? Does Hon implicitly and explicitly condemn other Christian believers that don't fall in line with his denomination?

If so - I agree with brother "Evangelical"'s question

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Why the double standards from you ?

Why is the local churches ("LSM") divisive for meeting in a meeting hall and not meeting with denominations, and Hon's fellowship are not also divisive for meeting in homes and not with denominations?

Isn't the expression "not meeting with" equivalent with "divisions among you". Paul commanded that there be "no divisions among you". Saying that you won't meet with certain christians indicates that there are divisions among you.

I have met with numerous groups that cover the entire spectrum of Christianity except for Catholics. (I cannot recall attending a Catholic service though perhaps I have and just forgot.) Only one gave some kind of test and warned against meeting with other groups. That was the Lord's Recovery Church.

The warning they gave was extreme, Ray Graver in teaching on the Lord's table warned that you could get sick and die if you took the table with anyone other than the Lord's Recovery Church. Ray Graver also required elders to sign a loyalty pledge to Witness Lee.

Then the Blended's as a whole agreed to excommunicate Titus Chu and entire churches because he published outside of LSM.

This is the very thing that Paul commanded that we were to not allow.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Why the double standards from you ?

Why is the local churches ("LSM") divisive for meeting in a meeting hall and not meeting with denominations, and Hon's fellowship are not also divisive for meeting in homes and not with denominations?

LSM excommunicated Henry Hon for meeting house to house.

LSM excommunicated Titus Chu for writing a book.

LSM excommunicated Nigel Tomes for exposing their false teachings.

LSM excommunicated John Ingalls for righteousness sake.

(This forum is filled with the details and many more cases of expulsion.)