"We don't care for doctrines." - Lee

[Kevin]

What is wrong with this statement by Lee?

"We don't care for doctrines."

Also I have posted a quote on my Facebook wall:

"Scripture alone is the true lord and master of all writings and doctrine on earth. If that is not granted, what is Scripture good for? The more we reject it, the more we become satisfied with men’s books and human teachers." — Martin Luther

— Matthew Barrett, from God’s Word Alone—The Authority of Scripture

And here comes a LC member commented to my post:

Actually if we focus merely in the written word and doesn't confirm to our experiences this will be a doctrine alone that damage us, this is what John 5:39-40 and matt.15:7-9 says

Joh 5:39 - You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that testify concerning Me.

Joh 5:40 - Yet you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Mat 15:7 - Hypocrites! Well has Isaiah prophesied concerning you, saying,

Mat 15:8 - “This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart stays far away from Me;

Mat 15:9 - But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as teachings the commandments of men.

We need teaching and doctrine but to focus on the things written in scriptures and throw it for our defense to ours is a big mistake that a believers the intention of the scriptures. We need to realized of aspect of knowledge the 1st aspect is the written word using our mental comprehension and the 2nd aspect of knowledge is the experienced of what was written that cause us to realized "the word I have spoken to you are spirit and are life"

Many believers seeking the right teaching and doctrine this is right ,again "merely " paying attention on this may cause us to damage our seeking God as life, I like this hymn 1110 stanza 2 it say

O what a shame — when Christ with all His riches,
Has come into the world, life to supply —
That man would live, not by Him, but by teachings,
So powerless these riches to apply.

While we are seeking the right teaching and doctrine do not forget that Christ came to give us life and having abundantly.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What is wrong with this statement by Lee?

"We don't care for doctrines."

Also I have posted a quote on my Facebook wall:

And here comes a LC member commented to my post:

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

If you equate your experience as "being a doer of the word" and if you understand that all of this word can be summed up in the two commandments given to us by Jesus which James refers to as "the perfect law of liberty".

[Ohio]

Did Martin Luther add to his statement, "Be obstinate, be unbelieving, be hard-hearted, and be hypocritical like the Svribes and Pharisees?"

Just another instance where Witness Lee takes verses out of context and twists them for his own gains.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Did Martin Luther add to his statement, "Be obstinate, be unbelieving, be hard-hearted, and be hypocritical like the Svribes and Pharisees?"

Just another instance where Witness Lee takes verses out of context and twists them for his own gains.

It seems that after beholding their faults in the word of God, like a mirror, they straightway forgot what manner of men they were.

It seems their experience of "doing the word" was not aligned with the Lord's word to love your neighbor as yourself and to love God with your whole heart.

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Many believers seeking the right teaching and doctrine this is right ,again "merely " paying attention on this may cause us to damage our seeking God as life

This is Classic LC speak - Throw out the term "many believers"... indicate they're doing it all wrong, then add a quote from Witness Lee approved writing.

I wonder if, like most of those who I met in the LC, this person has any context on what others in the body of Christ, meaning outside the church of witness lee, actually are like - where their hearts and minds are....

Why argue so definitively from a position of ignorance?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What is wrong with this statement by Lee?

"We don't care for doctrines."

Catchy. But it is designed to either differentiate between the doctrines that the one making the statement teaches and those others teach, or it is evidence that the clear teachings in the scripture are of little real importance.

And Lee taught many things that were to be adhered to. Those are doctrines. If you didn't care for his doctrines, you could eventually be seen as a leper, or be cast aside.

To say that they are not doctrines does not make it so. It is a game of semantics. "If I teach it, it is not doctrines. If you teach it, it is doctrines."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What is wrong with this statement by Lee?

"We don't care for doctrines."

Doctrines are teachings from the Bible that teach us and safeguard us. Paul warned Timothy (II Tim 4.3) that, "The time will come when they will not tolerate healthy doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires." This became all too evident during the GLA quarantines. Many in the GLA LC's became so disruptive and antagonistic with their elders in the meetings, not because they were not teaching sound doctrine from the scriptures, but because they were not teaching from LSM's books. They had itchy ears for Lee's books.

Witness Lee subtly changed the scripture in II Cor 3.6 from the "letter kills" to "doctrines kill." Then WL convinced his followers that his ministry had no doctrines which could kill them, and that his ministry alone could give them "life." Even some dear believers who have left the LC's for some time still say, "I just want life," and go off and read their Life-Studies. Their need for "life" cannot be met even by the Bible, let alone other ministries. They obviously have a permanent "itch" in their ears.

OBW said it best:

Originally Posted by OBW

It is a game of semantics. "If I teach it, it is not doctrines. If you teach it, it is doctrines."

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What is wrong with this statement by Lee?

"We don't care for doctrines."

Easy to say, but difficult to do.
Baptism- while meeting with various local churches every baptism was by immersion. Never once witnessed a baptism via sprinkling.
Deputy Authority- I tend to see this as a non-negotiable doctrine in the local churches. It would be rare to see an elder or co-worker to submit to an average brother/sister much how King David submitted to Nathan. (side note-that's what led to my youngest son to be named Nathan).

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Doctrines are teachings from the Bible that teach us and safeguard us. Paul warned Timothy (II Tim 4.3) that, "The time will come when they will not tolerate healthy doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires." This became all too evident during the GLA quarantines. Many in the GLA LC's became so disruptive and antagonistic with their elders in the meetings, not because they were not teaching sound doctrine from the scriptures, but because they were not teaching from LSM's books. They had itchy ears for Lee's books.

Witness Lee subtly changed the scripture in II Cor 3.6 from the "letter kills" to "doctrines kill." Then WL convinced his followers that his ministry had no doctrines which could kill them, and that his ministry alone could give them "life." Even some dear believers who have left the LC's for some time still say, "I just want life," and go off and read their Life-Studies. Their need for "life" cannot be met even by the Bible, let alone other ministries. They obviously have a permanent "itch" in their ears.

OBW said it best:

Well said Ohio and OBW

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Doctrines are teachings from the Bible that teach us and safeguard us. Paul warned Timothy (II Tim 4.3) that, "The time will come when they will not tolerate healthy doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires." This became all too evident during the GLA quarantines. Many in the GLA LC's became so disruptive and antagonistic with their elders in the meetings, not because they were not teaching sound doctrine from the scriptures, but because they were not teaching from LSM's books. They had itchy ears for Lee's books.

Much more than that. The itching ears excludes any speaking or scripture that would cause one to be "inwardly disturbed". If there's a speaking or a scripture that causes one's conscience to be convicted, can't have that. That's negative speaking. It's speaking positively when "they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires".

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by OBW

Catchy. But it is designed to either differentiate between the doctrines that the one making the statement teaches and those others teach, or it is evidence that the clear teachings in the scripture are of little real importance.

And Lee taught many things that were to be adhered to. Those are doctrines. If you didn't care for his doctrines, you could eventually be seen as a leper, or be cast aside.

To say that they are not doctrines does not make it so. It is a game of semantics. "If I teach it, it is not doctrines. If you teach it, it is doctrines."

One definition that I came across for the word doctrine is "a codification of beliefs." Every group has a set of beliefs that they adhere to. So if Lee's mantra were to be taken literally, it would be the equivalent of saying "we don't care for what we believe in." That, of course, would have been absurd.

The troubling implication of what Lee said is the suggestion that it's not necessary or important to think about stated doctrines of others, or even the common-held doctrines. This is exactly what he managed to convince everyone of. All the while, he could go about freely speaking all kinds of nonsense and no one thought to question it.

[zeek]

"We don't care for doctrines." - Lee

Then why all the law suits, Mr. Lee?