SPLIT THREAD - Early Lee - Later Lee

[Hope]

Originally Posted by IDon'tKnow

I think something to consider when considering early Lee and later Lee is....

Dear Brother,

Your analysis seem very accurate to me in many ways.

Hope

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Hope

Dear Brother,

Your analysis seem very accurate to me in many ways.

Hope

I agree, IDK. When we are in our proper place before the Lord, he can easily correct us, and no one has to get hurt, because it's all good.

Let's face it. Everyone is "wrong" in some way. We all need correction and change in some way. LSM/LC has their problems, and I have mine. It's not black and white. But if we are all humble and open, the Lord can correct and bless us all--often using a word from each other--without anyone having to relinquish that which we have which is genuinely true.

LSM's problem is that they have decided that they need not be corrected by anyone from the outside, in fact, they've even decided that such intrusions are most likely attacks from the devil.

That's just pride, plain and simple. And it's the kind of problem which has no means of self-correction. Like an alcoholic, they have an inevitable date with rock bottom.

[NeitherFirstnorLast]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I agree, IDK. When we are in our proper place before the Lord, he can easily correct us, and no one has to get hurt, because it's all good.

Let's face it. Everyone is "wrong" in some way. We all need correction and change in some way. LSM/LC has their problems, and I have mine. It's not black and white. But if we are all humble and open, the Lord can correct and bless us all--often using a word from each other--without anyone having to relinquish that which we have which is genuinely true.

LSM's problem is that they have decided that they need not be corrected by anyone from the outside, in fact, they've even decided that such intrusions are most likely attacks from the devil.

That's just pride, plain and simple. And it's the kind of problem which has no means of self-correction. Like an alcoholic, they have an inevitable date with rock bottom.

Amen!
While not true of all of the brothers and sisters with whom I meet, I must confess it to be true of most (or an issue with which they are currently struggling); because it is the message that comes out of "the ministry". I've been fellowshipping with a sister who seems very conflicted. She is one who left during a later turmoil (Titus Chu, I think?)... but wound up coming back. Now, some days, she is 110% for LSM, and other Lord's Table meetings I see her sitting to the side with the most miserable look on her face... I can see a battle inside of her, and I don't think she knows where to stand.

This is the sister who... had a rather heated discussion with me the other day. She was expounding what she believed to be a proper biblical principle with which she knew I wasn't in complete agreement (I don't find it helpful to argue, and I can be wrong; but I will voice my opinion... especially when cornered). In any case, the talk somehow turned to "the ministry", and while I was saying we need to refer to the Word of God as the true source for our understanding (and drew forth my Bible to emphasize it), she held forth her booklet from the video training in agreement. "That isn't the Word of God." I said. "I'm not so sure about that!" she rebutted... and then proceeded to elaborate with all the "life" she's gained from it. I couldn't believe it. How could I argue with her, if that is truly her position?

How many out there in the LSM churches believe that what WL/WN wrote was the Word of God? Don't they know that the Bible is written and complete? That it is as deadly a sin to take away from the Word as it is to add to it?

I'm praying for that sister; and I pray for all those who've allowed the ministry to bind their spiritual eyes. We all have a spirit, Saints.... and the Spirit speaks to each one.

Matthew 23:8-10 "But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ."


In Christ,

Neither First nor Last

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by NeitherFirstnorLast

While not true of all of the brothers and sisters with whom I meet, I must confess it to be true of most (or an issue with which they are currently struggling); because it is the message that comes out of "the ministry". I've been fellowshipping with a sister who seems very conflicted. She is one who left during a later turmoil (Titus Chu, I think?)... but wound up coming back. Now, some days, she is 110% for LSM, and other Lord's Table meetings I see her sitting to the side with the most miserable look on her face... I can see a battle inside of her, and I don't think she knows where to stand.

One of the most troublesome things about church conflicts and quarantines, is that bad decisions are thrust upon the saints which they never should have to make.

Think about how ugly a divorce is for young children. They are often forced to decide between parents, because the immaturity of one or both parents demands it from the children. Imagine the long-term effects of being forced to make such a decision. Just take a look at the crimes in our society and you will see every day the bad fruit of such divorces. No child should ever be forced to make such a choice.

Nearly every LC was forced to decide for or against TC. Rare indeed was the eldership which said we need to make no decision, because "all are ours, and we are of none." (see I Cor 3.18-23) Who in the LC's even knows how to apply these verses? Concerning the TC Quarantine, "the Lord knows the reasoning of the wise, that they are vain." Whistler was 1,000% "the wisdom of this world," but the Lord says all these "reasonings are vain."

I'll never forget the words of one dear sister, whom many considered was not very "spiritual." She said, "this quarantine is a fight between two ministries, and it should NOT involve the churches." Such wise words were not even thought of by all the "wise" brothers.

Many saints today are just hapless victims which have become "double-souled." Families and homes have been split and divided, just collateral damage of ministry wars.

Oh Lord be merciful, we are yours, and yours alone.

[Suannehill]

Originally Posted by Ohio

One of the most troublesome things about church conflicts and quarantines, is that bad decisions are thrust upon the saints which they never should have to make...

Oh Lord be merciful, we are yours, and yours alone.

Thank you Ohio!
My phrase that I repeated over and over was, "Do not let someone else frame your choice then force you to make one...YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CHOOSE ONE OR THE OTHER"
That, as much as anything else drove me away...
ah, there was a third choice.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Suannehill

Thank you Ohio!

My phrase that I repeated over and over was, "Do not let someone else frame your choice then force you to make one ... YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CHOOSE ONE OR THE OTHER"

That, as much as anything else drove me away ... ah, there was a third choice.

Grace to you Suannehill.

So many dear brothers got swept away by the first or second choice, thus only adding fuel to the fire. Would to God we had more sisters like you who could speak for the Lord! So many brothers that I had talked to said, "we must take a stand for the truth" which were code words for "we must side with TC."

I just hate that LSM would not let any saints have a third choice, saying to them often that "neutral you cannot be" and that nonsense about "natural affections, like honey, spoil the sacrifices."

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'll never forget the words of one dear sister, whom many considered was not very "spiritual." She said, "this quarantine is a fight between two ministries, and it should NOT involve the churches." Such wise words were not even thought of by all the "wise" brothers.

Wow brother! What words of a discerning sister! I echo what Suanne spoke, there was a third option.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

Wow brother! What words of a discerning sister! I echo what Suanne spoke, there was a third option.

She is from a tiny church of a few saints, struggling to survive.

At this point I would encourage them to just attach themselves to a nearby congregation. "Standing on the ground of oneness," is just bogus theology.