Repetition, Ritual, Religion

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I see where you are coming from, I really do. But as soon as you take that viewpoint, I think it raises questions about other parts of the bible.
A problem with numerology as you described, is that one cannot be certain whether the number is intended to be literal or purely symbolic. To be on the safe side, I believe it is better to take it literally, and consider it to be both literal and symbolic.

And I see where you are coming from. You are presuming that God has provided this end-all compendium of ways to make him happy but veiled it in vague implications and coded messages. That his words almost always mean something not actually said. And that the words actually said are ignored because you are busy trying to find hidden meaning.

The Bible is too clear on too many things to leave the difference between proper prayer and vanity to an overlay that says because in this one case (that is numerically different from all others) Jesus prayed three times concerning this one thing, therefore we should understand it to mean we should never pray more than 3 times for anything.

Numerology, while possibly adding meaning in a few cases, is something of uncertain meaning and application. To insist that the fact of 3, 4, 7, 10, 12, 144, etc. always have significant meaning is just not realistic.

But the only instructions on prayer was instruction for "when you pray," therefore something that can, and even should be the pattern for regular prayer. And it includes a regular, repeating prayer for forgiveness and to be delivered from evil. If we are eternally saved, then why the continual prayer for forgiveness? Might it be because it takes more than once, twice, even three times to deal with our need for forgiveness?

In any case, you have exhausted my will to debate this issue with you. You are clearly more worried about what you force into the text than what naturally comes from it. And at this point, I think that anyone can see through your word games. You are so concerned with what is not there that you want to push a "principle" onto others. You call it a principle, but its consequences (according to your own posts) would indicate that it is more clearly a rule in your mind. Something that you feel the need to insist upon. To me, it shows a lack of care for the real message of the gospel and of the scripture as a whole and instead seeks to make something out of it that is not actually found within its words. I believe that to be a spiritual sickness that is coupled with a spiritual blindness that is now obviously not easily cured by simply pointing back to what is actually there.

It takes prayer. And I believe it may take more than three times to cure you of it. Maybe even more than the washing seven times in the Jordan.