Major Errors of Witness Lee’s Teaching

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Instead of leaving your gift at the altar, Evangelical determines who is in right standing and refuses communion if he determines they aren’t. Given the apology letter to PL I assume this is a very low bar indeed.

Andrew Yu ducks and weaves with this, instead of saying they are “the only church” they say they are “only the church”. What he neglects to mention is that he also says that all others are not “only the church”.

Evangelical for some reason thinks that elders are exempted from sinning and needing reconciliation. Apparently his version of the Bible has deleted all verses relevant to this topic.

It is so twisted that Evangelical “cannot see how anyone can follow Christ’s words in Matthew 18:17.

23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier*matters*of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.24Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

The more you listen to Evangelical this whole topic is about straining a gnat out of the NT while swallowing the camel.

I never said that elders are exempt from sinning.That is your strawman. My point is related to the multiplicity of elders and altars existing today. And the scriptural assumption that "the church" is a place that one can be confident in going to declare ones grievances and resolve disputes.

I note that Jesus never said "tell it to the church that the sinning brother atttends". Jesus implies that a multiplicity of churches would not exist, just as they did not exist at the time.

If there are 100 different churches in a city, how do you know which altar to leave your gift at? The scripture says altar, but because of denominations today it is in fact many altars. This is a situation of confusion and division.

Rather than leave the gift at the altar, the denominational solution is to create a new altar.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I never said that elders are exempt from sinning.That is your strawman. My point is related to the multiplicity of elders and altars existing today. And the scriptural assumption that "the church" is a place that one can be confident in going to declare ones grievances and resolve disputes.

I note that Jesus never said "tell it to the church that the sinning brother atttends". Jesus implies that a multiplicity of churches would not exist, just as they did not exist at the time.

If there are 100 different churches in a city, how do you know which altar to leave your gift at? The scripture says altar, but because of denominations today it is in fact many altars. This is a situation of confusion and division.

Rather than leave the gift at the altar, the denominational solution is to create a new altar.

The only altar today among Christians is the cross of Christ.

There is no verse in the New Testament limiting the number of elders.

But there are very clear verses that tell you not to take the Lord's table until you have reconciled with others. That is the clear command from Jesus and the apostles.

Stop creating bogus limitations "plurality of elders", "multiple altars", putting the "spin on one church" by Andrew Yu. According to you the Bible doesn't say what to do if elders sin. How low will you stoop?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The only altar today among Christians is the cross of Christ.

Practically speaking the altar is regarded as related to the communion table in major denominations, particularly Catholic. You seemed to regard the altar similarly. In post #131 you "joined the dots" so to speak between the altar verse and communion:

Instead of leaving your gift at the altar, Evangelical determines who is in right standing and refuses communion if he determines they aren’t.

If the altar is related to the communion table then my comment about multiple altars or let's say, multiple communion tables, makes sense.

If the altar is the cross, then how does one practically apply:

Leave there your gift before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

There is actually no biblical command that one must be reconciled before taking communion. However we apply the principle mentioned in said verse, to taking communion.

Or we could just disregard the verse altogether, and consider it part of a Jewish command that gentiles don't have to keep.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Practically speaking the altar is regarded as related to the communion table in major denominations, particularly Catholic. You seemed to regard the altar similarly. In post #131 you "joined the dots" so to speak between the altar verse and communion:

Instead of leaving your gift at the altar, Evangelical determines who is in right standing and refuses communion if he determines they aren’t.

If the altar is related to the communion table then my comment about multiple altars or let's say, multiple communion tables, makes sense.

If the altar is the cross, then how does one practically apply:

Leave there your gift before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

There is actually no biblical command that one must be reconciled before taking communion. However we apply the principle mentioned in said verse, to taking communion.

Or we could just disregard the verse altogether, and consider it part of a Jewish command that gentiles don't have to keep.

That is an excellent point, if we equate the communion table ("this is my body and this is my blood given for you") to Jesus sacrifice on the cross which was a sin offering, peace offering, meal offering, burnt offering, etc.

Then this will answer the question of different communion tables or one communion table.

To me this test is just like the test for Ruth, was she a Moabitess or was she the widow of an Israelite? We get the answer from her heart -- your God will be my God and your people will be my people.

If we ask the believer, is this the Lord's table of a particular denomination and you need to be a member of that denomination first, before partaking of this table, then yes -- Moabite.

On the other hand if the answer is that "no, this is the "Lord's" table and you need to have received the Lord first to partake of this table, then this church is the widow of an Israelite (Jesus, who died on the cross).