Outer Darkness?

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

If you are a Christian then yes you are a member of the church in the locality. But you are not a member of the Local Church denomination because our membership is only in the Body not a denomination.

If you see how many posts we had to go through before you received me as a member, you will find how legalistic the LC has become.

We have just wasted too much time on this and strayed from the more important concern about outer darkness.

And be careful with your answers, I almost think you have accepted there is such thing as "Local Church denomination".

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

If you see how many posts we had to go through before you received me as a member, you will find how legalistic the LC has become.

We have just wasted too much time on this and strayed from the more important concern about outer darkness.

And be careful with your answers, I almost think you have accepted there is such thing as "Local Church denomination".

This is sort of related to the topic of outer darkness because Witness Lee taught that those in the denominations go into outer darkness. It is related to the first post "Is there still an outer darkness, the 1000 year 'summer school' for defeated believers? " I think the topic of "how do we join the Recovery" might be a bit further away from that however.

As a believer, I would always receive you as a member of the local church and the body of Christ. But when you identified yourself as a member of a denomination, I did not receive you because I do not recognize myself as having denominational membership.

It is as though Paul after his conversion would have gone to Peter in Jerusalem and said "dear Peter, I am from the church of Paul", and Peter would have said "what is that?". Peter would probably not have received him.

Anyway that is my perspective as a member of the local church (not Local Church). If there is a local church that considers itself a Local Church Denomination then I guess that would be a denomination!

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

As a believer, I would always receive you as a member of the local church and the body of Christ. But when you identified yourself as a member of a denomination, I did not receive you because I do not recognize myself as having denominational membership.

It is as though Paul after his conversion would have gone to Peter in Jerusalem and said "dear Peter, I am from the church of Paul", and Peter would have said "what is that?". Peter would probably not have received him.

Anyway that is my perspective as a member of the local church (not Local Church). If there is a local church that considers itself a Local Church Denomination then I guess that would be a denomination!

You have managed to confuse me again. Do you receive or not receive a believer who thinks he has joined a denomination? Does he have to leave the denomination in order to be received by you as a member of the local church and the body of Christ?

If Paul had gone to Lee, I guess Paul would be kicked out of the door of the local church to the outer darkness without the chance of saying a word because of his Judaism practices, e.g. He circumcised Timothy, the son of a Greek.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

You have managed to confuse me again. Do you receive or not receive a believer who thinks he has joined a denomination? Does he have to leave the denomination in order to be received by you as a member of the local church and the body of Christ?

If Paul had gone to Lee, I guess Paul would be kicked out of the door of the local church to the outer darkness without the chance of saying a word because of his Judaism practices, e.g. He circumcised Timothy, the son of a Greek.

Yet Paul resisted Titus being circumcised, that's an interesting discussion in itself.

It depends - does the believer want to fellowship on the basis of his denomination, or does he want to fellowship on the basis of being a believer.

In the early church it was important to be identified correctly because of the spies and persecution.

Am curious - does everyone in your local church believe they are a Local Church denomination?

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Am curious - does everyone in your local church believe they are a Local Church denomination?

Don't worry brother, I am only the odd man out. Most in the local church don't think (know?) they are in a denomination yet.

But I noticed they call less and less themselves the church in the locaility. More and more they just say the church or they are in the Lord's Recovery.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Don't worry brother, I am only the odd man out. Most in the local church don't think (know?) they are in a denomination yet.

After watching LSM over the years grow and transform itself from a minister and his printing press into this panoptic controller of all things "recovery," subjecting every member LC to its endless whims, I have concluded that that defines denominational evils more than any so-called name, pseudo-name, or non-name.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Don't worry brother, I am only the odd man out. Most in the local church don't think (know?) they are in a denomination yet.

But I noticed they call less and less themselves the church in the locaility. More and more they just say the church or they are in the Lord's Recovery.

I would not read too much into whether they add "in the locality" or not to the end. "the church" is much quicker/easier to say and it would not make much sense for us to tell each other the obvious that we are all in the same locality. It is usually only visitors who say which locality they are from.

[Sons to Glory!]

I know this is an older thread, but I see no reason to start a new one as the original subject and initial discussion about it started off good I think. (although it became something of an interesting & amusing study of going "snorkeling in the weeds" with all the sidebars and repeated calls to stay on topic, only to conclude totally off topic! Humans - we be something - gotta love us!) Maybe this time we can stay more on topic . . . mostly . . . sorta . . . kinda.

My current interest in this topic, Outer Darkness, is somewhat because of a recently written book (2015) I just purchased, "Your Eternal Reward: Triumph and Tears at the Judgment Seat of Christ" by Erwin Lutzer. I don't actually have the book in hand (it's being delivered tomorrow), but I have read some of it online. Has anyone else read it or heard of the author?

As others on here have testified, I used to be in general fear & trembling over the WL doctrine of spending a thousand years in outer darkness - if I left the LC. Well I did leave, but the fear has taken me awhile to recover from (yes, I get the irony in using that word). Regardless, I certainly can't ignore all the warnings in the NT about running the race well and not being disqualified (as Paul says). But I believe there is a healthy balance to be found in the word, such as He tells one of the profitable servants, "Well done, good and faithful servant! You were faithful over a few things; I will set you over many things. Enter into the joy of your master!" Here's a key I think: "A FEW things." Maybe this is what it means to be an "overcomer." Not being a SuperSaint, but rather being faithful in a few . . .

Personally, I believe that once we're saved we're always saved ("saved" meaning we've received the free gift of Christ's life in us and become children of Father). However, the Bema Seat will render unto us reward or loss according to our works, according to things done while in this body of flesh (will they will be wood, hay, stubble or gold, silver, precious stones?).

I've got a lot more to say, but that's good to start things off. How about it - let's resurrect this thread on OUTER DARKNESS and see if we can stay on topic this time!

Decent article on Bema Seat at Bible.org HERE