The Unique Move of God

[Cal]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I agree with this but think you have gone further astray from the thread. It seems contrived to attribute this to "building the church" or that "the church is the unique move of God in this age".

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your perspective.

The reason it is relevant to this thread is because the "unique work of God" if it is about building the Church, is not about it in the way the LCM is about it.

My point is that it is easy to say "I am for God's true purpose." But if that purpose is not about helping people then however good it sounds it is off. And I mean "helping" in the way Jesus wants to help people--that is, he is concerned about spirit, soul, body, in that order. But he was concerned about people, not an abstract ideal or institution called "the Church."

"I'm for the building of the Church" sounds really, really good. But if you look closer at the LCM vision it is really about building an institution. It isn't about people. The Church is some separate entity from people to them. They don't admit it, but that's the way it is. People are a means to an end in their model. But in God's heart people ARE the end. Yes, he wants us "built up together." But that is because the highest blessing is living in cooperative community with God at the center, not because some ideal called "the Church" beckons us.

God is all about loving and blessing people. Besides himself, people are his highest ideal. Not the LCM's "Church" abstraction, which really turns out to be their movement in disguise.

[Drake]

Igzy) "Fear of not being good enough, fear of not "making" the kingdom, fear of not pleasing "the brothers." In general fear of failure, of not being a "good brother." "

Igzy,

From my perspective there is mixture described above..... healthy fear and perhaps some misplaced fear.

Healthy fear is toward God including a fear of not entering into His rest. A fear of being disapproved standing before the judgement seat of Christ (the Bema) and missing the reward of the kingdom are also very healthy fears.

The fear of not pleasing the brothers or failing to be a good brother was never a fear that I experienced. When the Lord brought me into His recovery I gained a heightened awareness of whether my actions or words might offend others but that never reached the level of fear. Doing well on training tests was concerning yet I wouldn't use fear to describe that. Neither did I always agree with everything said or go along with it. I always checked with the Lord and sometimes I held back when others went forward and other times I felt very alone in the front while others were holding back.. Yet, whether I was sidelined, or leading the charge, or in the middle of the pack or at the back, I had peace. I may have been puzzled at times but I was at peace before the Lord. Unless I was restful before the Lord I typically did not act. Still, I recall times when I had the peace to sit something out, yet the Lord encouraged me to get up. Or I felt to charge ahead on something and the Lord spoke to be still. Fear was not a factor.

What I am saying net net Igzy, is that fear of not pleasing others or not being a good brother ON THEIR OWN MERITS is misplaced fear. It sounds like law to me. Truth is, I cannot be a good brother unless Christ is the good brother in me. I can pretend to be a good brother but only His life reaches the good brother standard. If your fear was that you were not living the good brother life of the Lord through you then I would say that is healthy because we should be concerned about missing Him in every situation. Otherwise, a fear of not living up to some standard apart from His life is misplaced fear. It simply cannot be done so why fear it? Rather acknowledge and confess it to Him then allow Him to become that in you... e.g. the good brother.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

I appreciate your perspective. I am happy that this forum includes different perspectives and experiences.

In my own experience the fear was a mirage. Face it, go through the cross, experience the fellowship of the Lord's sufferings and you will also experience the outstanding resurrection.

I was threatened by elders, slandered by them, and had my hospitality manipulated by them to make my life miserable, but in the end all of those threats were impotent. Why, what prompted them to do this? I once told a brother in the book room that I preferred WN to WL because when I read WL's book's I didn't get anything from them.

But it didn't matter. I was able to fully function in the LRC standing on the word of God and I did not need to lift up WL. I worked on the construction site in Irving for 18 months, I was involved in the raising up of a church in Odessa for about 2 years, and I was in Taipei in the FTTT for 8 years.

[Drake]

ZNP) "In my own experience the fear was a mirage. Face it, go through the cross, experience the fellowship of the Lord's sufferings and you will also experience the outstanding resurrection."

At some point, probably around the Philippians training, my understanding flipped on this and I realized that my personal experience more closely aligned with that of Philippians 3:10. There the starting the point is the power of His resurrection then what follows is the fellowship of His sufferings and being conformed to His death. That helped me to struggle less and enjoy Him more. Less anxiety and more trust.

This footnote in the Recovery Version on that verse articulates my experience well:

"With Christ, the sufferings and death came first, followed by the resurrection. With us, the power of His resurrection comes first, followed by the participation in His sufferings and conformity to His death. We first receive the power of His resurrection; then by His power we are enabled to participate in His sufferings and live a crucified life in conformity to His death. Such sufferings are mainly for producing and building up the Body of Christ (Col 1:24)"

An example of this is what I meant in response to Igzy about living the "good brother" life of Christ.

Nevertheless ZNP, by whatever process or steps taken you must have also experienced His resurrection power in fellowship and in the joy of the Lord since you were there for another decade in spite of adverse circumstances.

Drake

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Drake

From my perspective there is mixture described above..... healthy fear and perhaps some misplaced fear.

Thanks for your insights. I generally agree. Actually I didn't fear the disapproval of others as much as my post might have indicated.

I really just feared the daily dread of not being good enough. The daily grind of the unreasonable expectations of the LCM. The tediously spartan lifestyle.

I realize things have softened some since the early days. But the fundamental problem remains. You talk about the Lord bringing you into "his recovery." This shows you've allowed yourself to be indoctrinated with the belief that the focal point of God's work on the earth is centered in a tiny group of Christians which hasn't appreciably increased in 60 years. That's simply irrational. I can't see how intelligent Christians still believe that. I mean, if there were some indication of superior results in that system I might be swayed. But every person I've encountered from the LCM who was there when I was show no more appreciable growth than I've had, for all I can tell. So I just see no real evidence of all the claims.

As far a I'm concerned, this belief--that the LCM or any other group, is so "special" that the members feel justified in placing fear in each of leaving it--is a doctrine of demons. Using the fear of God's judgment to hold members in one's group is one of the most craven and underhanded things a leader can do. It's abuse, plain and simple

That's what I fight against and that's what this thread is all about.

Here's a bet. I'd be willing to bet that if the leaders of the LCM finally announced, as in good conscience they should, that the members should feel the freedom to leave and meet where the Lord leads with no fear of judgment, the LCM would lose at least half its membership in short order.

They should do it anyway. Why would you want to hold people there that don't want to be there? The LCM would be better off with just willing participants.

But the leaders have a deep-seated fear, too, I think. The fear of losing a huge chunk of membership if they ever told their members the WHOLE truth.

I think everyone knows deep down that if the the leaders of the LCM didn't put the fear of leaving into its members, then eventually no one would stay.