The Unique Move of God

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I think I have a better feel for the attitudes and beliefs of the Church at large than the average LCMer. Your beliefs are basically in line with what Witness Lee taught 50 years ago.

Go to any Christian bookstore. Start reading the books and see how many you find where the writer advises people to join one particular denomination. It just doesn't happen that much anymore. Yes, people generally think their church preference is a good choice, that's why they go there. Duh. But I think the vast majority of serious Christians do not have divisive prejudices anymore.

Christian bookstores ? what about a Catholic bookstore are they now advising people to join their nearest evangelical church?

So you dont think Orthodox people are serious christians because they advise joining the orthodox church?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Christian bookstores ? what about a Catholic bookstore are they now advising people to join their nearest evangelical church?

So you dont think Orthodox people are serious christians because they advise joining the orthodox church?

I'm sorry I don't get the joke.

Good grief, Evangelical. I said that people are going to recommend the church they prefer. But recommending is a far cry from telling people they will probably end up in outer darkness if they don't join your church, which is basically what the LCM does.

Please try to keep up.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I'm sorry I don't get the joke.

Good grief, Evangelical. I said that people are going to recommend the church they prefer. But recommending is a far cry from telling people they will probably end up in outer darkness if they don't join your church, which is basically what the LCM does.

Please try to keep up.

This is the part I found amusing:

I think I have a better feel for the attitudes and beliefs of the Church at large than the average LCMer. ... Go to any Christian bookstore. Start reading the books ...

It reads as if you have a better feel for the attitudes and beliefs of the Church at large because you have read the books in Christian bookstores. I'm sure you did not mean that but that is how it reads to me.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

This is the part I found amusing:

I think I have a better feel for the attitudes and beliefs of the Church at large than the average LCMer. ... Go to any Christian bookstore. Start reading the books ...

It reads as if you have a better feel for the attitudes and beliefs of the Church at large because you have read the books in Christian bookstores. I'm sure you did not mean that but that is how it reads to me.

I thought it was amusing because of the incredible irony. The arrogance in saying you have a better feel for the attitudes and beliefs of the church at large is astounding, even more when it is that same attitude you are condemning in thousands of posts.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I thought it was amusing because of the incredible irony. The arrogance in saying you have a better feel for the attitudes and beliefs of the church at large is astounding, even more when it is that same attitude you are condemning in thousands of posts.

I did not say that I have a feel for the attitudes and beliefs of the church at large. Igzy doth saith so. Because he has read lots of books from Christian bookstores.

It is a strange piece of advice to give someone to know about the Church by reading all the books in a Christian bookstore.

Should I start with "Winning at Work and in Your Finances", by Creflo Dollar.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

This is the part I found amusing:

I think I have a better feel for the attitudes and beliefs of the Church at large than the average LCMer. ... Go to any Christian bookstore. Start reading the books ...

It reads as if you have a better feel for the attitudes and beliefs of the Church at large because you have read the books in Christian bookstores. I'm sure you did not mean that but that is how it reads to me.

Well, again this shows how ignorant you are. Because you can learn a lot about what's going on the in Church by reading what's in Christian bookstores.

You should try it sometime.

And again, I challenge you to find one book that says something like, "in order to be a truly faithful Christian you must join the [insert specific flavor] church."

You'll likely only find that sort of comment in LCM literature. That's ironic, but I'm sure the irony is lost on you.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Well, again this shows how ignorant you are. Because you can learn a lot about what's going on the in Church by reading what's in Christian bookstores.

You should try it sometime.

And again, I challenge you to find one book that says something like, "in order to be a truly faithful Christian you must join the [insert specific flavor] church."

You'll likely only find that sort of comment in LCM literature. That's ironic, but I'm sure the irony is lost on you.

the joke is still going on because you don't realize what you are saying.

I might start with "Your Best Life Now" by Joel Olsteen, and then I might read how to improve my finances by Creflo Dollar.

Actually I agree with you - the total content of a Christian bookstore is fairly reflective of the true state of Christianity.

I might just "come out" of the prosperity teaching section, walk past the Catholic/Pope section and stroll over to the Witness Lee /Watchman Nee section and start reading there.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

the joke is still going on because you don't realize what you are saying.

I might start with "Your Best Life Now" by Joel Olsteen, and then I might read how to improve my finances by Creflo Dollar.

Actually I agree with you - the total content of a Christian bookstore is fairly reflective of the true state of Christianity.

I might just "come out" of the prosperity teaching section, walk past the Catholic/Pope section and stroll over to the Witness Lee /Watchman Nee section and start reading there.

As usual you succumb to the fallacy of the appeal to extremes. Not that I don't like Joel Osteen. I do.

But if you look at most of the bookstore content it will be solid, mainstream, fundamental and decidedly non-divisive.

Unlike the LCM wackadoo.

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

the joke is still going on because you don't realize what you are saying.

I might start with "Your Best Life Now" by Joel Olsteen, and then I might read how to improve my finances by Creflo Dollar.

Actually I agree with you - the total content of a Christian bookstore is fairly reflective of the true state of Christianity.

I might just "come out" of the prosperity teaching section, walk past the Catholic/Pope section and stroll over to the Witness Lee /Watchman Nee section and start reading there.

Evangelical's quote from a different thread. "As I was strolling through my local Christian bookstore the other day (tongue in cheek), I came across a book "Pagan Christianity" that said, "most of what we do in religious circles has no precedent in Scripture. This includes many of the activities within church services"."

This guy won't see the irony in his attempt at a "gotcha" statement. He won't see that this is what many have pointed out - he is clearly out of touch with Christianity. He thinks that the mindset described above (By Frank Viola) is somehow counter the the movement of Christ across the world and perfectly aligned only with the teachings of Witness Lee and the LSM denomination.

I've seen first hand the difficulties in breaking this bondage within the LCM and seeing Christianity for what it is today. It is difficult when you're living in a world organized by a fallen man (Lee) and orchestrated by Living Streams Ministry. Come back to the truth set out in Scripture, come back to the Author of Truth, and the Spirit of Truth. Other believers are not adversaries stuck in Babylon and will come along side you through your journey.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

Come back to the truth set out in Scripture, come back to the Author of Truth, and the Spirit of Truth. Other believers are not adversaries stuck in Babylon and will come along side you through your journey.

Unfortunately, the need to feel unique and superior, and hence to discredit all others, seems to be a deep-seated one within LCMers.

In fact, it is almost as if their spiritual identity hinges on this need. LCMers seem to think "just being another group" is entirely unacceptable. Of course, we all want to be more than just a group, we all want to be the Church. And we are, thankfully. But for LCMers that is not good enough. They seem to feel that if anyone else is allowed to be the Church then they are denied something. Hence Evangelical's vitriol toward "Christianity."

It really is a form of greed. Although I'm sure they would deny that tooth and nail.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

Evangelical's quote from a different thread. "As I was strolling through my local Christian bookstore the other day (tongue in cheek), I came across a book "Pagan Christianity" that said, "most of what we do in religious circles has no precedent in Scripture. This includes many of the activities within church services"."

This guy won't see the irony in his attempt at a "gotcha" statement. He won't see that this is what many have pointed out - he is clearly out of touch with Christianity. He thinks that the mindset described above (By Frank Viola) is somehow counter the the movement of Christ across the world and perfectly aligned only with the teachings of Witness Lee and the LSM denomination.

I've seen first hand the difficulties in breaking this bondage within the LCM and seeing Christianity for what it is today. It is difficult when you're living in a world organized by a fallen man (Lee) and orchestrated by Living Streams Ministry. Come back to the truth set out in Scripture, come back to the Author of Truth, and the Spirit of Truth. Other believers are not adversaries stuck in Babylon and will come along side you through your journey.

I think I have a real "gotcha" there.

Igzy said I should read all the Christian books, that "serious Christians do not have divisive prejudices anymore".

Yet the book "Pagan Christianity" clearly prejudices against most churches today by declaring most of their practices to be pagan. According to Igzy they must not be serious Christians.

Or maybe you and others are just blind to the truth revealed by independent researchers and thinkers like Viola and Barna. Just like the majority of Christians in the time of Luther could not see the paganism of the Catholic church, and chose to remain there rather than come out with Luther.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

This guy won't see the irony in his attempt at a "gotcha" statement. He won't see that this is what many have pointed out - he is clearly out of touch with Christianity. He thinks that the mindset described above (By Frank Viola) is somehow counter the the movement of Christ across the world and perfectly aligned only with the teachings of Witness Lee and the LSM denomination.

Here's another "gotcha" from the book, which is on topic, about denominations and divisions.

The early Christians did not divide themselves into various
denominations. They understood their oneness in Christ and
expressed it visibly in every city. To their minds, there was only
one church per city (even though it may have met in many
different homes throughout the locale). If you were a Christian
in the first century, you belonged to that one church. The unity
of the Spirit was well guarded. Denominating themselves ("I
am of Paul," "I am of Peter," "I am of Apollos") was regarded
as sectarian and divisive (see 1 Corinthians 1:12).

The church in the first century was an organic entity. It was a living, breathing organism that expressed itself far differently from the institutional church today. And that expression revealed Jesus Christ on this planet through His every-member functioning body


In short, this book demonstrates beyond dispute that those who have left the fold of institutional Christianity to become part of an organic church have a historical right to exist—since history demonstrates that many practices of the institutional church are not rooted in Scripture.


Remember I did not get this from Lee/Nee books. This is from a book in my local christian bookstore

Now I can rephrase my previous statements to be on topic to this thread:

Igzy said I should read all the Christian books, that "serious Christians do not have divisive prejudices anymore". (#144)

Yet the book "Pagan Christianity" clearly prejudices against most churches/denominations today by declaring their existence to be "not rooted in Scripture".