Lee's Trinity

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

It is not for us to judge people outside the Church. We want salvation of all people and we leave the judgment to the Lord. Will He save or not some people: who, why and how? - we do not know.

Do you believe a Muslim who has not accepted Christ can be saved then if their life is full of good works and love towards others? There are many Muslims like this.

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14)

I think the faith in God and the certainty of one's posthumous destiny are two different things. We can claim anything but the Lord looks at our hearts.

"If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." (1 Corinthians 13:2)

Do you really have works? Do you really have love? Do you really think that you are worthy of the Kingdom of God? I believe only a deluded person can answer "yes, I do".

We can believe whatever we like about our posthumous life but only God knows our destiny.

I think it is Mormons who "know" that they will become a god or a goddess on his or her own personal planet... but who gave them the guaranty?

Then the apostle Paul must be deluded, because he seemed rather confident:

2 Tim 4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

2 Tim 4:8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

Do you know where your soul will go after you die? Will it be Bosom of Abraham? Are you 100% sure that you will be able to unite with Christ? Do you think that you deserve the Kingdom of God where the Lord prepared a nice place for you?

An Orthodox Christian has hope that he will be able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven and achieve a union with God. But rejecting the Church, which is the Body of Christ, the man cuts himself off Christ. Thefore, his posthumous life in the Kingdom of Heaven will be impossible.

One can't know his destiny until he dies. Well, we can delude ourselves, expecting a cosy place in Paradise, but will it help us out?



The Church is the Ark of salvation. Its goal is to bring and unite people to Christ. I have more chances to be saved when I am in the Ark than without it.

God bless.

Please read your bible, does Romans 10:9 and Acts 16:31 say "might be saved", or "will be saved" ? According to you, the apostles must have been deluding people to say that they will be saved.

[InChristAlone]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Do you believe a Muslim who has not accepted Christ can be saved then if their life is full of good works and love towards others?

I believe it can be problematic for such a Muslim to be saved but I leave it for the Lord to judge. Will the Lord save him or not? I don't know.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Then the apostle Paul must be deluded, because he seemed rather confident:

2 Tim 4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

2 Tim 4:8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Do you consider yourself equal to the apostle Paul? Or do you want to say that you can't be deluded?

Earlier in life, even Paul did not claim an infallible assurance, either of his present justification or of his remaining in grace in the future. Concerning his present state, he wrote, "I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified. It is the Lord who judges me" 1 Cor. 4:4

But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. 1 Corinthians 9:27

Paul saw that, in spite of his faith, there was a danger of his "disqualification". What about you? You seem to be assured to be qualified.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Please read your bible, does Romans 10:9 and Acts 16:31 say "might be saved", or "will be saved" ? According to you, the apostles must have been deluding people to say that they will be saved.

Actually, you are doing the same thing when you are explaining Lee's Trinity. You don't consider the New Testament as the whole thing. You choose certain verses and neglect others. Are the verses below of less importance?

‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ Matt. 7:21

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?" James 2:19-20

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12

"You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." James 2:24

"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." James 22:14-17

"He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching and journeying toward Jerusalem. And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able." Luke 13:22-24

"On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’' Matthew 7:22-23

"And whenever the unclean spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, “You are the Son of God.”' Mark 3:11

Even demons believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God but their faith doesn't save them. Faith must be active, not mental or intellectual.

My wife and her fellow brothers and sisters like to go "door-knocking" and urge people to shout "Jesus is Lord!" Do you think this can save those folks? What kind of faith is it? One can say, "Yes, I believe that Jesus is Lord." What's then? Is it the end? Can such a man be assured in his salvation?