Jezebel -- why we should know who she is.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Now it may be true that we can see this very clearly in the history of the Catholic church, but why should we limit this form of deceit to the Catholic church? There is nothing in the Bible that says we should.

If Witness Lee did these four things then why wouldn't you diagnose this as being the same spirit?

ZNP

Because using your interpretation method for Jezebel anyone can justify any belief from the Bible.

I'll illustrate using an entirely unrelated example. If I believe that UFOs exist and want to prove their existence from the Bible then I can start looking for examples that fit the description of a UFO and sure enough I find the examples I seek in Elijah, Ezekiel, Daniel, the star over Bethlehem , and Jesus when taken up in the cloud, and stuff in the book of Revelation. Since UFOs and those biblical descriptions look the same to me then why shouldn't everybody diagnose those as being the same thing?

You know how you want the story to end so you create a narrative using the Bible to justify your ending.

You did this twice with Jezebel in this thread. Once with equating the US governnent to Jezebel and her 850 prophets to scientists and pollsters. Then again below to Brother Lee using the same flawed argumentation.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Because using your interpretation method for Jezebel anyone can justify any belief from the Bible.

Drake

I don't find ZNP to be any more extreme than Lee was.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

ZNP

Because using your interpretation method for Jezebel anyone can justify any belief from the Bible.

I'll illustrate using an entirely unrelated example. If I believe that UFOs exist and want to prove their existence from the Bible then I can start looking for examples that fit the description of a UFO and sure enough I find the examples I seek in Elijah, Ezekiel, Daniel, the star over Bethlehem , and Jesus when taken up in the cloud, and stuff in the book of Revelation. Since UFOs and those biblical descriptions look the same to me then why shouldn't everybody diagnose those as being the same thing?

You know how you want the story to end so you create a narrative using the Bible to justify your ending.

You did this twice with Jezebel in this thread. Once with equating the US governnent to Jezebel and her 850 prophets to scientists and pollsters. Then again below to Brother Lee using the same flawed argumentation.

Drake

No, here is why that does not apply.

1. Requiring that the person call themselves a prophet or prophetess is very limiting.

2. This person must teach the believers idol worship, they must present a substitute to Jesus as Lord. That is extremely limiting.

3. This person must convince the servants of Jesus to eat things sacrificed to idols. This is extremely limiting.

The definition I have is that the person must teach the servants of Jesus to commit idol worship and also to give money to support this idol and that they must present themself as a prophet of God.

Now if you don't want to call that person a Jezebel, that is fine, but what do you want to call them? It is clear that their behavior is condemned by the Bible, that is not "justifying any belief" that is clear and simple word.

Now if this person also used a worldly court system to "stone believers for blasphemy" and then "steal their vineyard", how about now? What is your reason to say they aren't a Jezebel?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

ZNP...
You know how you want the story to end so you create a narrative using the Bible to justify your ending.

You did this twice with Jezebel in this thread. Once with equating the US governnent to Jezebel and her 850 prophets to scientists and pollsters. Then again below to Brother Lee using the same flawed argumentation.

Drake

I never equated the US government to Jezebel, what I said was that Jezebel employing 850 prophets to run the country of Israel is what the US government does. The point was not that the US government is Jezebel, the point is that Jezebel brings in worldly methods to run the church.

You think you know how the story ends so you just fill in the ending you assumed I was going to say.

I did equate Witness Lee to Jezebel but I did not use the reference to the 850 prophets, though I could have by referencing the FTTT and the use of accounting methods, etc.

No, I used the following points to equate Witness Lee to Jezebel

1. He refers to himself as a prophet of God, even the apostle who alone has the authority to appoint and fire elders. This is based on the lie he perpetrated about Watchman Nee's excommunication. His mass firing of the elders in Taipei is reminiscent of Jezebel cutting off the prophets of God. His use of PL to be the president of LSM is similar to Jezebel hiring prophets of Baal.
2. He had 450 elders sign a loyalty pledge to him, in direct opposition to the epistle of James in which he said above all not to make an oath. I consider this idolatry. Very reminiscent of the Lord's word to Elijah about those He had that "had not bowed the knee". Signing a loyalty pledge to Witness Lee means they bowed the knee to Witness Lee.
3. I also consider the standing orders, Daystar, and other business schemes to be teaching the servants of Jesus to eat things sacrificed to idols.

I appreciate that you and others might disagree. However, I consider his support of PL even at the cost of ripping the church in half, with the "Max Rebellion", "Sister's rebellion" and John Ingals fiasco to be the rotten smell that proves this is one ugly mess.

4. I also base it on the "leaven" he hid in the pure word of God -- MOTA and Ground of the church.

5. And I base it on the similarity between Jezebel getting some elders to accuse Nahor of blasphemy and then stone him to death in order to steal his vineyard to Witness Lee establishing a legal defense fund so that he could sue Christian ministries who could not afford lawsuits, drive them into bankruptcy and then bash their brains in.

Who has seduced you that you do not obey the truth? Don't you think it is important that we know who it is that did this?

I view Jezebel as the woman who hides leaven in the meal. That would cause it to ferment. You can say that the Roman Catholic Church is a big hunk of fermented or moldy cheese. That is fine. But why is the leaven that Witness Lee introduced not viewed with the same concern as the Catholic church which has little or nothing to do with you personally?

The fact that the woman "hides" the leaven indicates it is a deceitful work, difficult to discern. It is not easy to "see" leaven, but it is easy to see the effect -- the bread is puffed up, the cheese smells, etc. Surely you can see that doctrines like MOTA and Ground of the church have the effect of "puffing up" and the lawsuits give the Witness Lee sect a "stinky smell".