The Psychological Dynamics of Message Boards

[Hope]

Originally Posted by aron

I have a similar testimony. I was out of contact with this group for a number of years, and when I encountered one of my old friends in the LC, and asked, "What's new?", I was told, and I quote, "Titus Chu rebelled". Same kind of information control pervading the ranks. Everything else is hunky dory, we are all happy here in LC-land, except that bad old Titus Chu up and rebelled on us.

Well, back in the day, that's the same spin I heard about John So and John Ingalls and so forth. When I was deep within the LC "information fold", I got the FPR and that was the source of all my information on the "turmoil". The mere suggestion that there might be another side of the story worth hearing was never broached.

That is one of the reasons I feel rather tolerant, occasionally even magnanimous, toward all the posters on the LC-related forums. Anything is a step up from that kind of information control. Any poster, no matter how zany, is an improvement from the Big Brother Truth Machine. I vastly prefer the "free market" exchange of ideas over the totalitarian "only LSM-approved materials/thoughts/information can be disseminated" reign of error.

Hello everyone,

Wasn't the information control kind of mind boggling. I noticed that many of the saints in "the Lord's Recovery" had a very very linear way of thinking. It was on-off, black-white, right-wrong, good-bad with no gray areas or margins for operating in. Thus, the headquarters did not need much control to be effective in stopping the free flow of information and ideas.

Is it not amazing that a Doug Krieger, a Max Rapoport, a Sal Benoit, a John So etc can go from being a wonderful hope for the Body of Christ to a pariah in one week-end? How can anyone be so narrow minded to think God has only one flow or work or ministry in any time period? Once in Dallas, we were having a Bible Study at the Medical School. Some other medical students were also sponsoring a Bible Study. A brother from the church in Dallas who was a med student and I were together and he proposed a question. The other group was growing in number faster than our group. He wanted to know how that could be since we were who we were. I answered that "maybe they are just better than we are. Maybe we should have a contest and see who wins." What a double take I got back! I realized that I need to restrict my ironic humor and subtlety. My real concern was "why are we comparing ourselves to others."

EASY NOW FORUM, EASY, but I have noticed that some posters who left the local churches still have that narrow linear mindset. This does make life a lot simpler. If we can boil down a world-wide movement to one or two events or personalities, we can easily explain it. We can easily make some kind of sense out of our own experiences.

Another type of thinking in the local church was simple cause and effect. For example, George Whitingtion and others are meeting as some sort of independent church in Denton Texas. George meets WL and appreciates what WL shares on 1 Corinthians chapter 14. George visits church in Waco and asks us to come visit them. Hip, Hip horay. There is now a local church in Denton. Or in the fall of 1989,Don Rutledge invites John Ingalls for a conference in mountains of NC at same time WL is in Cleveland. (Actually, WL is not running his schedule by Don Rutledge it just happened that way.) But now Don Rutledge is in league with the rebellion of John Ingalls and in competition with the ministry.

Just consider it. Be flexible. Be open to more than one interpretation. As amazing as it may seem, It is possible for there to be multiple views and explanations for the various experiences we may have had in the local churches.

I propose an unofficial moratorium on telling others who may not see things exactly the same to sit down and shut up.


Hope, Don Rutledge

A believer in Christ Jesus

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Hope

Wasn't the information control kind of mind boggling. ...Just consider it. Be flexible. Be open to more than one interpretation. As amazing as it may seem, It is possible for there to be multiple views and explanations for the various experiences we may have had in the local churches.

I propose an unofficial moratorium on telling others who may not see things exactly the same to sit down and shut up.
Hope, Don Rutledge

Thank You Hope..for your very well spelled out thoughts. I think this is part of the reason I was interested in seeing the time frames of the posters and lurkers in the LSM/LC.

We all experienced some sort of information control.. Furthermore..most of us here lived in different cities, under different elders with Lee as the pope. The messages came from him and distributed to the global parishes.

Our individual experiences varie greatly. My time there was not that BAD..and yet, I had to flee when I did. I left way before the LC became the LSM and long, long before the 'new way'..before the 80's turmoil, before Lee's passing, before the Blendeds..and yet so much of what people went through, I understand completely.

We have a Great and AWESOME GOD...who will never forsake us or leave us and whose Love will continue to pull us to Himself..and to draw us together in Christ Jesus.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Hope

Wasn't the information control kind of mind boggling. I noticed that many of the saints in "the Lord's Recovery" had a very very linear way of thinking. It was on-off, black-white, right-wrong, good-bad with no gray areas or margins for operating in.

... How can anyone be so narrow minded to think God has only one flow or work or ministry?

Just consider ... Be flexible. Be open to more than one interpretation. As amazing as it may seem, It is possible for there to be multiple views and explanations for the various experiences we may have had in the local churches.

The grand irony here, for me, is that Christ actually does quite well in the arena of scepticism and cross-examination; we do not have a "sick-bed God" who must be kept in some special room, apart from the harsh realities of the rough-and-tumble world. In the marketplace of ideas, with its cold light of examination and inspection, the vain things quickly get exposed for their inconsistencies, their phoniness and unrealistic wishful thinking, and the reality of Jesus Christ just shines brighter and brighter. The more you look the better He looks. So we shouldn't be alarmed by those who seem to be skeptics and cynics and scoffers. Many of us were at least somewhat "negative" until one day we gave Christ a try and He came through with flying colors.

For example, the whole "one publication" thing struck me as prima facie absurd; it revealed a land of fearful make-believe where we must be careful lest anyone says or does something wrong and our whole enterprise might crumble. No, I say, Let's throw a party and invite all the scoffers and sceptics and cynics and bad-mouthers and all the lame and the halt and the wierdos. When Christ comes they (we) all get healed.

The idea of trying to protect the "pure" interpretation from the "leaven" of deformed christianity creates the worst leaven of all. As I said somewhere recently, information control is a sure sign you're in desperate trouble; at best you have stasis, with your museum of static dogmas, and at worst you have rigor mortis, buried in a tomb full of dead letters.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Hope

Wasn't the information control kind of mind boggling. I noticed that many of the saints in "the Lord's Recovery" had a very very linear way of thinking. It was on-off, black-white, right-wrong, good-bad with no gray areas or margins for operating in. Thus, the headquarters did not need much control to be effective in stopping the free flow of information and ideas.

Is it not amazing that a Doug Krieger, a Max Rapoport, a Sal Benoit, a John So etc can go from being a wonderful hope for the Body of Christ to a pariah in one week-end? How can anyone be so narrow minded to think God has only one flow or work or ministry in any time period?

These are very good questions indeed. The answer can be found in the steady diet which we received. I remember the Timothy trainings in the aftermath of the "Mad Max" storm of the late 70's. WL focused on the word "inoculation." Any negative speaking from a "concerned" brother was likened to a dangerous "poison" whose "germs" were extremely "contagious." Hence, our great need to be continually on guard, that we would be "inoculated."

The Recovery had a long history of "storms" and "rebellions." It seemed people would up and change overnight. We were constantly provided warnings to grip us all with fear, lest somehow we too "get sick." We were all held in a "cage of fear." Open the door and many would escape. Many of us would not dream of leaving, after hearing so many stories of tragedy befalling those who departed, but if a well-respected leader would depart, then others would dare to follow.

This is why those who departed were vilified by the ministry -- to stop an impending exodus. Making John Ingalls a "pariah" was the only way to save "the program" from collapse.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

WL focused on the word "inoculation." Any negative speaking from a "concerned" brother was likened to a dangerous "poison" whose "germs" were extremely "contagious." Hence, our great need to be continually on guard, that we would be "inoculated."

It seemed people would up and change overnight. Open the door and many would escape. Many of us would not dream of leaving, after hearing so many stories of tragedy befalling those who departed, but if a well-respected leader would depart, then others would dare to follow.

This is why those who departed were vilified by the ministry -- to stop an impending exodus. Making John Ingalls a "pariah" was the only way to save "the program" from collapse.

This "inoculation" illogically explains why brothers who have had years of fellowship together would abruptly cease overnight. A brother would cross a street in order to avoid "contamination". There is no real cause . These brothers are still the same. However what has changed is their standing based on LSM and Witness Lee's ministry.
Typically brothers who need innoculated against are no longer in one accord with LSM work. Why is there a need to villify brothers? As we've seen with these storms, these brothers didn't change overnight. What changed is the veil was taken away.

Terry

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Terry

This "inoculation" illogically explains why brothers who have had years of fellowship together would abruptly cease overnight. A brother would cross a street in order to avoid "contamination".
Terry

I will never forget a brother in my locality left the LC. He 'knew' me.. or knew who I was at least. I don't think I was ever a pushy person..but in any case, one day at the college, we saw each other at a distance on the same sidewalk. He was walking towards me & I towards him for that was the direction each of us was going.

Guess what he did ? Yeppers..he crossed the street to avoid me.

I hope he's doing well whereever he is.

Also.....the questions raised by Hope

How can anyone be so narrow minded to think God has only one flow or work or ministry in any time period?

and comments made by Ohio

We were all held in a "cage of fear." Open the door and many would escape. Many of us would not dream of leaving, after hearing so many stories of tragedy befalling those who departed, but if a well-respected leader would depart, then others would dare to follow

...remind me of my upbringing in the RCC. We were told it was the 'one true church'. We were instructed back then..not to visit the protestant churches.

I have Catholic friends who read the Bible, and are really saved but because of their 'innoculation' & indoctrination won't leave the RCC. Slowly but surely some of my friends have.

That stronghold of fear to leave a 'church fellowship' is what many Bible teachers call "the Jezebel spirit".

There is a lot of info on the web on the Jezebel spirit if you google it.