Do you think Christianity is degraded?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The Supreme court is not "my house", nor is the Whitehouse, nor is Congress. Those houses belong to the world.

You were railing against the laws of the US, the Supreme court, etc. Are you now narrowing your bile to just Christian denominations? More specifically are you now focusing on the Lutheran denomination?

It seems like you are painting with an awfully broad brush when you condemn Christianity for being degraded because of the Lutheran denomination. Lutherans make up 2% of Christians in the US, but you are going to condemn all Christians because of the policy of these 2%?

Please clarify, are you still railing about the US Supreme court, US laws, or have you narrowed down your complaint to just Christianity, specifically Lutherans? Also, are you condemning all Christianity because of what 2% of them do?

I hope you notice that absolutely no one on this thread has defended the Lutheran decision, nor has anyone tried to say that homosexual sex isn't a sin. So far all of the issues raised have been your foray into politics as though that was our calling and your condemnation of a very large group of people because of the stance of a very tiny minority.

ZNPaaneah, the statistics were 60% or thereabouts of Protestants, see no conflict between their religious beliefs and homosexual marriage. What are you doing about that? All the other Christians in your city is your "house", or do you not believe that you are one body with all the denominations and not divided? If such being the case, you should have no issue with speaking up about the sins and "Jezebels" in your locality, as Christ wishes you to do as per Revelation 2:20. Are we making our "house" a better place by trying to clean it up? Or are we letting it degrade in the name of "love and tolerance"? We cannot focus solely on gospel preaching yet ignore the state of our own house.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

ZNPaaneah, the statistics were 60% or thereabouts of Protestants, see no conflict between their religious beliefs and homosexual marriage. What are you doing about that?

I guess right now what I am doing is exercising my senses to discern good from evil:

Heb 5:12For when by reason of the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need again that some one teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food. 13For every one that partaketh of milk is without experience of the word of righteousness; for he is a babe. 14But solid food is for fullgrown men, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

This is based on the rudiments of the gospel. As I have already pointed out, when I was baptized I made a statement that the world is corrupt, has been judged and will be terminated and buried. I am all for being a good citizen who takes part in the legislative process, but that is not the way of salvation for a corrupt and sinful world.

The only way they will be saved from sin is by receiving Jesus Christ.

The "fact" that 60% of "Christians" are either nominal or not walking by the Spirit is not news to me. If you were walking through the desert with Moses and saw the rebellion of Korah, what are you going to do about that? I'll stand with God and let Him judge that.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I guess right now what I am doing is exercising my senses to discern good from evil:

Heb 5:12For when by reason of the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need again that some one teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food. 13For every one that partaketh of milk is without experience of the word of righteousness; for he is a babe. 14But solid food is for fullgrown men, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

This is based on the rudiments of the gospel. As I have already pointed out, when I was baptized I made a statement that the world is corrupt, has been judged and will be terminated and buried. I am all for being a good citizen who takes part in the legislative process, but that is not the way of salvation for a corrupt and sinful world.

The only way they will be saved from sin is by receiving Jesus Christ.

The "fact" that 60% of "Christians" are either nominal or not walking by the Spirit is not news to me. If you were walking through the desert with Moses and saw the rebellion of Korah, what are you going to do about that? I'll stand with God and let Him judge that.

The bible indicates we have a responsibility for the state of the church, that will not be accomplished through baptism. That is our duty also, not merely to preach the gospel and forget about the state of God's house. When I speak against denominations and particularly the degradation, what I am doing is caring about the state of God's house. Furthermore, by separating myself from that environment, I am also making a statement that Jezebel will not be tolerated in the church, as much as is up to me. So far, as far as I can tell you have presented two ways that people are caring about the state of God's house, that is
By baptism -great
By not getting married to someone of the same sex - great also.

Others I'm not so convinced about:
Preaching the gospel - great but this is more for the unsaved than God's house
By tolerating Jezebel- uh oh, not really helping anything here.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The bible indicates we have a responsibility for the state of the church, that will not be accomplished through baptism.

Do you understand what I mean by baptism? I am not referring to dunking people into water, I am referring to immersing them into the triune God, having them walk by faith to follow the Lord into death and resurrection. If you understand that, then of course it will be accomplished by baptism. That is the way of salvation given to us by Jesus.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

That is our duty also, not merely to preach the gospel and forget about the state of God's house. When I speak against denominations and particularly the degradation, what I am doing is caring about the state of God's house.

Perhaps, I'll let the Lord judge.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Furthermore, by separating myself from that environment, I am also making a statement that Jezebel will not be tolerated in the church, as much as is up to me.

Oh. Can you please show me the basis in the NT for separating yourself from other Christians because they don't measure up to your standard? As an inner city teacher I would love to be able to separate myself from those that don't measure up, make my job a whole lot easier. Great statement -- we'll provide you with the education once you measure up.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

So far, as far as I can tell you have presented two ways that people are caring about the state of God's house, that is
By baptism -great
By not getting married to someone of the same sex - great also.

Others I'm not so convinced about:
Preaching the gospel - great but this is more for the unsaved than God's house
By tolerating Jezebel- uh oh, not really helping anything here.

I have no issue with three of those points, but one I am stunned that "tolerating Jezebel" is what you got from my posts. Can you point to the post where "I presented tolerating Jezebel as a way that people can care about the state of God's house". If you can, I'll clear up the confusion. If not I will agree with Ohio that you intentionally misquote and misconstrue what others say, which is deceitful.

[Evangelical]

Well Lee writes about this - we don't separate because of the condition or standard but because of the ground. As a teacher I might separate myself from students that are from another school, because I work in a different school. If the other school is catholicism for example, i might separate myself from that because I am not catholic, just Christian.

My comment about Jezebel was in relation to what I said, in regards to the verse in Revelation, not something you said. Although I am replying to you, my remarks are general and not directed at you specifically. I think my discussion style is sometimes misconstrued because I make general remarks related to whoever they may apply to, not necessarily to the person I am discussing with. I am certain you are not one who tolerates Jezebel in the church.

[ZNPaaneah]

So you say that you, unlike others, do not tolerate Jezebel. You also make ground the standard by which you separate.

Several questions

1. Define what you mean by the "ground of the church".

2. How does standing on this ground not tolerate Jezebel?

3. What is it precisely that prevents Jezebel from standing on your ground?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So you say that you, unlike others, do not tolerate Jezebel. You also make ground the standard by which you separate.
Several questions
1. Define what you mean by the "ground of the church".
2. How does standing on this ground not tolerate Jezebel?
3. What is it precisely that prevents Jezebel from standing on your ground?

The church Jesus spoke to about Jezebel was a genuine church because it was a locality church, not a denomination. But in its condition it tolerated Jezebel. It is possible to stand on the proper ground and tolerate Jezebel, the verse shows that.

It is possible to stand on the wrong ground and not tolerate Jezebel. Jezebel is not just the ones accepting immorality, but in any church with a female priest or pastor because Jezebel is a woman who likes control.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

All the other Christians in your city is your "house", or do you not believe that you are one body with all the denominations and not divided? If such being the case, you should have no issue with speaking up about the sins and "Jezebels" in your locality, as Christ wishes you to do as per Revelation 2:20.

Where is the requirement to speak up about anything? Not tolerating and speaking up are not synonyms. The requirement is to overcome. To not hold to her teachings. To hold fast to what you have.

And you can be assured that these discussions happen all the time. But it is not everyone's charge to speak out in the open forum of the church. But it is for some and they do just that.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by OBW

Where is the requirement to speak up about anything? Not tolerating and speaking up are not synonyms. The requirement is to overcome. To not hold to her teachings. To hold fast to what you have.

And you can be assured that these discussions happen all the time. But it is not everyone's charge to speak out in the open forum of the church. But it is for some and they do just that.

This idea of not speaking is wrong and stupid. As is the idea that we can preach the gospel by not saying anything.