The Fallacy of Ecumenism

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Nell

E,

I believe I just said most of that.

N

Yes, so we agree in the theory, but maybe not the practice, if you don't think Lee/Nee were truly led by God and were simply in it to make a name for themselves.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Yes, so we agree in the theory, but maybe not the practice, if you don't think Lee/Nee were truly led by God and were simply in it to make a name for themselves.

Lee was a gifted Bible teacher who lost his way. I wouldn't presume to say why he did what he did because I don't know his heart. I can see the fruit he produced along the way. Some of it was good, some was very bad.

My point was that you seem to use "church" and "denominations" interchangeably. This is not right and apparently you agree.

Neither is the point to say that "some" believe the LC should be "in fellowship" with other denominations (ecumenism). This was never part of the discussion.

The Christians in the LC should, rather, be in fellowship with other Christians, and stop its slander of those Christians who, with biblical evidence, disagree with the Local Church denomination teachings and practices.

Nell

[OBW]

Evangelical,

So you think that whether or not denominations are the best way to do things, or even wrong, and since there is a serious question as to whether the LCM is nothing less than another denomination, would you agree that refusing to at least try to be one with all these others would be your problem (or my problem to the extent that I am the one looking for bases to cut off fellowship) rather than simply theirs?

I honestly believe that the group I am with gets more of the doctrines and teachings of any importance right than any other, yet I find no reason to blacklist the others or declare them off-limits to my participation with them in the mission of the church. But if your group claims to be the best in the "unity" department, why is it that you are unwilling to participate with the others? Seems more like you are only in unity with yourselves. No real stomach to be one with others.

So throw out the issues. Like . . . .

They teach things that shouldn't be taught — so you refuse Smyrna

They tolerate a "prophet" that teaches sexual immorality — so you refuse Thyatira

They appear dead and are unfinished in their deeds — so you refuse Sardis

They seem to know-it-all but also seem luke-warm — so you refuse Laodicea.

Oddly, the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the one holding the seven spirits of God, the one with eyes of fire and feet of bronze, and the one with the sharp, two-edged sword did not refuse them. He called them to correct their ways. But he asked none to leave and go elsewhere. He did not declare them not in the church (or not church).

Gripe all you want about ecumenism. At least they are trying. You are not. You have taken white-out and blotted them out of the book of the church. Something that the Bible itself did not do.

They are not the ones with no unity. It is you and the LCM. They may not outwardly have as much as you or even I would like. But at least they are trying.

You are not.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Nell

The Christians in the LC should, rather, be in fellowship with other Christians, and stop its slander of those Christians who, with biblical evidence, disagree with the Local Church denomination teachings and practices.

The quote above is from Nell. It is a good one.

Even from the viewpoint of denominations and not just individual Christians.

What is completely ignored by the LCM view is that they expect all fellowship to be one-directional. It must be through the participation of individuals in their (LCM) activities and meetings. There is no stomach for going out to be one with anyone. Their opinion of their positions is just too extreme to tolerate appearing to be one with anything that is organized by persons from any group other than theirs.

Maybe some one-on-one fellowship is tolerable. But how much of even that is void of attempts to move people toward your way of thinking.

When is the last time there was a public prayer concerning the church as a whole (not just the LCM in its various assemblies) that was not about how they might repent of not being like the LCM and just joining them? Instead, just a prayer that the church would grow and expand throughout the world. And would represent Christ in all ways, both secular and spiritual. And that the two would become one and the same as far as the Christians are concerned.

If the church just did this, the world wouldn't think about the doctrinal differences that those Christians have. It is clear that they reflect something attractive and are worthy of our consideration.

But instead the church fights about the doctrines (though that is not seen too much outside the family). But some take it further and shut the others out. Call them names. All while openly refusing the very activities of righteousness that Jesus commanded and would reflect the nature of God.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by OBW

So you think that whether or not denominations are the best way to do things, or even wrong, and since there is a serious question as to whether the LCM is nothing less than another denomination, would you agree that refusing to at least try to be one with all these others would be your problem (or my problem to the extent that I am the one looking for bases to cut off fellowship) rather than simply theirs?

You are confusing fellowship with joining in the idolatrous practices. Fellowship happens in the homes, on the streets, on the buses, in the parks. The LC seeks fellowship with others and often does fellowship with those outside, but this does not mean we will attend a Catholic church service.
Smyrna, Thyatira, Sardis, are still real churches, they are not denominations. We do not refuse the real churches, in any condition, we just refuse the fake ones, in whatever condition.. Jesus did not even acknowledge any sects or divisions that may have been within those city churches. Jesus does not recognize any denominations today. He does not give a message to the Catholics and another to the Lutherans, he just speaks to the one church per city.