The Fallacy of Ecumenism

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Evangelical,
The ecumenicism you are excoriating is a relic from the past. Once again you are taking your riff from something Witness Lee taught long ago. Have you no inspiration other than things a man dead for twenty years taught?

Hi Igzy,

God is also working people out of denominations: Non-denominationalism is on the rise
http://www.christianitytoday.com/eds...ost-recen.html

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Hi Igzy,

God is also working people out of denominations: Non-denominationalism is on the rise
http://www.christianitytoday.com/eds...ost-recen.html

I believe God is moving his people to major on the majors and minor on the minors. People want Jesus, and they know proprietary doctrines and practices which do not speak directly to God's basic truths of salvation and relationship with Him are superfluous. They are not interested in those. This is resulting in people seeking out churches which are less interested in being distinct. God can be fresher in community churches, and this is attractive.

So, yes, I believe that this is all part of God plan. But it doesn't mean God hates denominations. It means that denominations need to become more general. And they will, to survive, because people will vote with their feet. The name of a denomination is a superficial issue. A denomination is simply an attempt to present a certain flavor of Christianity. Every group at some level thinks they are doing it right and, at the very least, how God wants people to do it. The LCM is no different. There is nothing really unique about it. It's a flavor of Christianity.

But the flavors tend to become set in their ways and ossify. The more a group becomes entrenched in tradition and routine the less God is free to use the group. That is why simplicity and generality and sticking to the essentials is so important. It helps us (1) stay light and (2) more able to receive and cooperate with others. This works more toward unity.

The LCM is a weird duck. It is very particular, very quirky, very proprietary. Yet it wants to think of itself as general. But no group so devoted to one teacher can hope to be general. Despite Lee's early foray into generality, he soon realized he could not keep control of the movement without making himself essential. So a double-mindedness was put in place. On the one hand he preached generality, but when push came to shove he was anything but general. This double-mindedness and hypocrisy eventually became the prevailing mindset, which remains to this day. And it is what makes many LCMers so difficult to reason with.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Igzy

The LCM is a weird duck. It is very particular, very quirky, very proprietary. Yet it wants to think of itself as general. But no group so devoted to one teacher can hope to be general. Despite Lee's early foray into generality, he soon realized he could not keep control of the movement without making himself essential. So a double-mindedness was put in place. On the one hand he preached generality, but when push came to shove he was anything but general. This double-mindedness and hypocrisy eventually became the prevailing mindset, which remains to this day. And it is what makes many LCMers so difficult to reason with.

I agree completely. To speak from my own experience, in the LC I saw many come and go - those who were disillusioned with denominations and the like. At the end of the day, those who came to the LC thinking that it had something more to offer weren't those who remained, it instead was those who knew nothing else. That distinction is telling.

Allow me to rephrase for emphasis. Those who stumbled across the LC in search of unity aren't the current LC constituent. People hear the narrative that comes from the LC and it does captivate some people. Eventually, people either realize that the LC is a proprietary system like Igzy says, or they buy into the narrative without knowing what lies ahead.

Those who feel that the LC is the best of two options will never be free from the oppression of the LC.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I agree completely. To speak from my own experience, in the LC I saw many come and go - those who were disillusioned with denominations and the like. At the end of the day, those who came to the LC thinking that it had something more to offer weren't those who remained, it instead was those who knew nothing else. That distinction is telling.

Allow me to rephrase for emphasis. Those who stumbled across the LC in search of unity aren't the current LC constituent. People hear the narrative that comes from the LC and it does captivate some people. Eventually, people either realize that the LC is a proprietary system like Igzy says, or they buy into the narrative without knowing what lies ahead.

Those who feel that the LC is the best of two options will never be free from the oppression of the LC.

One day you realize, "if I am really for the oneness of the Body I need to put the talk about 'proper ground' aside and just meet with others in the name of Jesus".

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

One day you realize, "if I am really for the oneness of the Body I need to put the talk about 'proper ground' aside and just meet with others in the name of Jesus".

Exactly. An obsession with ground, among other things is an over-complication of a simple matter.

In the LC, they like to sing a well-known hymn. A line reads as follows: On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand.

It's too bad the LC can't take this too heart.

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Those who feel that the LC is the best of two options will never be free from the oppression of the LC.

When I left the LC, many friends and relatives told me, essentially, "Yes, I know there are problems, but what else is there?/this is the best there is."

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

When I left the LC, many friends and relatives told me, essentially, "Yes, I know there are problems, but what else is there?/this is the best there is."

It seems that this is a common view among LC members, and from what I've seen, LC meetings act as a weekly 'psychotherapy' session to reinforce that view. The mindset is "This is the best there is, don't go looking for anything else." Members are taught to suppress any negative feedback. What this leads to is the us vs. them mentality, aka the false dichotomy that has been discussed already.