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[Intothewind]

Paul, instructs to abstain from blood and strangled animals as well. I know plenty of LC folks who eat cubed blood...certainly many who eat meat that is not kosher. I think homosexuality, like evolution, just really hits deep on fundamental belief

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Concerning homosexuality. Firstly, it was an old covenant regulation. . . . Thirdly, the New Testament reiterates this injunction. (Romans 1.26-27, I Timothy 1.10, I Cor. 6.9) The tragedy of Sodom and Gomorrah is also remembered in Jude 7 and 2 Peter 2.6.

This is why Christians do not view the eating of pork and homosexuality the same.

Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

I won't go on. All I see from these gay obsessed Christians, besides closet gay indicators, is : More Cherry pickin'.

Besides whoremongers and menstealers (was Paul jealous) those verses include others, like whisperers. If whisperers can't make The Kingdom we're all in trouble.

My point is : Christians are all up in arms about gays, but don't protest, or speak out loudly (to say the least) against gossipers. Why, cuz if they reject gossipers there won't be in money in their coffers any more, and they won't have enough money to even buy vBulletin. They'd have to use Facebook. But then the only reason anyone would 'Friend' them would be to talk behind their backs. haha.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Concerning the eating of pork et.al. Firstly, it is an old covenant regulation. Secondly, there is no new covenant instruction to abstain from pork. Thirdly, Peter in his trance was specifically instructed to eat all manner of foods. (Acts 10.9-16)

And that dream of Peter?!? Thanks for pointing it out. I've always loved that story. Why? Because God pulls a switcheroo on Peter, and reveals He has different judgments than Peter got from the OT (if Peter could even read).

The ultimate moral of the story, besides inclusiveness of forbidden food is : We can't use the Bible to determine what God does, or doesn't do, or will do, in the future, or at the judgment seat.

For all we know, for reasons beyond us, God could give some gays a pass ... like He will surely do for the whisperers (unless He wants heaven to be empty -- He could do that too, btw).

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

I won't go on. All I see from these gay obsessed Christians, besides closet gay indicators, is : More Cherry pickin'.

Besides whoremongers and menstealers (was Paul jealous) those verses include others, like whisperers. If whisperers can't make The Kingdom we're all in trouble.

My point is : Christians are all up in arms about gays, but don't protest, or speak out loudly (to say the least) against gossipers. Why, cuz if they reject gossipers there won't be in money in their coffers any more, and they won't have enough money to even buy vBulletin. They'd have to use Facebook. But then the only reason anyone would 'Friend' them would be to talk behind their backs. haha.


And that dream of Peter?!? Thanks for pointing it out. I've always loved that story. Why? Because God pulls a switcheroo on Peter, and reveals He has different judgments than Peter got from the OT (if Peter could even read).

The ultimate moral of the story, besides inclusiveness of forbidden food is : We can't use the Bible to determine what God does, or doesn't do, or will do, in the future, or at the judgment seat.

For all we know, for reasons beyond us, God could give some gays a pass ... like He will surely do for the whisperers (unless He wants heaven to be empty -- He could do that too, btw).

Awareness, firstly, good to participate in this side of the discussion, as one who holds alternative views myself, I think I fit right in.

Secondly, on topic - Christians focus on gay marriage because it was gay marriage which was accepted, not gossip-approving laws, or murder-approving laws (actually, abortion could fit in this category).
You should be thankful for all the Christians who are against gay marriage. Basically, a Christian at home standing against gay marriage is doing greater service for their country than a soldier in Afghanistan. You know why? Because God is a bigger threat to America than terrorists will ever be. Just ask Sodom and Gomorrah. Those that try to prevent God's judgement are doing a greater service to their country. If you disagree with me, what's your reason? Don't believe in God? Don't fear God? Don't believe in God's judgement? Believe terrorists are more powerful than God? Am open to hear the real reason you think the issue of gay marriage is not that important.

Perhaps it is the perceived hypocrisy of Christians to obsess about gay marriage over other issues. Unlike gossip, the matter is important from a societal, family and generational viewpoint. There are good reasons for Christians to focus on it over other issues.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Awareness, firstly, good to participate in this side of the discussion, as one who holds alternative views myself, I think I fit right in.

Welcome. It's becoming apparent that you hold alternative views.

But maybe not on Sodom and Gomorrha and homosexuality.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

You should be thankful for all the Christians who are against gay marriage. Basically, a Christian at home standing against gay marriage is doing greater service for their country than a soldier in Afghanistan. You know why? Because God is a bigger threat to America than terrorists will ever be. Just ask Sodom and Gomorrah.

Well I don't know that God judged Sodom and Gomorrah for homesexuality. Not according to Ezekiel anyway :

Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
Eze 16:50 They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.


I take you saying Christians against gay marriage are doing America a service by trying to hold back God's judgment, as He did to S & G. But Ezekiel explains the reason for His judgment was for : "pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty... "

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
Eze 16:50 They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.


I take you saying Christians against gay marriage are doing America a service by trying to hold back God's judgment, as He did to S & G. But Ezekiel explains the reason for His judgment was for : "pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty... "

Ah yes, the curse of excess food. We know this well in the US.

Perhaps the obesity epidemic in this country is the strongest evidence that the US is Sodom? What say ye Evangelical?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Ah yes, the curse of excess food. We know this well in the US.

Perhaps the obesity epidemic in this country is the strongest evidence that the US is Sodom? What say ye Evangelical?

Sometimes you come up with the freshest ideas. I didn't connect those dots. So, if so, then America is not earning God's judgment for gay marriage, but for McDonald's, and the other fast food joints ; too much food ; and it's the sin of gluttony. Apparently then, God hates obesity more than homosexuality.

Just wondering, based upon Ezekiel.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Sometimes you come up with the freshest ideas. I didn't connect those dots. So, if so, then America is not earning God's judgment for gay marriage, but for McDonald's, and the other fast food joints ; too much food ; and it's the sin of gluttony. Apparently then, God hates obesity more than homosexuality.

Just wondering, based upon Ezekiel.

Hey, if I was God I would judge us for McDonald's and also for those huge drinks at 7/11.

I think the credit should be given to Evangelical on this one.

I think Abraham asked God to not destroy it "if you can find 10 people that aren't obese"

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Welcome. It's becoming apparent that you hold alternative views.

But maybe not on Sodom and Gomorrha and homosexuality.



Well I don't know that God judged Sodom and Gomorrah for homesexuality. Not according to Ezekiel anyway :

Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
Eze 16:50 They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.


I take you saying Christians against gay marriage are doing America a service by trying to hold back God's judgment, as He did to S & G. But Ezekiel explains the reason for His judgment was for : "pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty... "

awareness,

we have to read Jude 1:7 which makes clear the connection with homosexuality.

The pride, excess of food (obesity), ease, and not aiding the poor and needy, is also an important issue. Christians have always tried to address these issues as well.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

awareness,

we have to read Jude 1:7 which makes clear the connection with homosexuality.

The pride, excess of food (obesity), ease, and not aiding the poor and needy, is also an important issue. Christians have always tried to address these issues as well.

But think of how practical this is. People can hide the fact that they are homosexuals, that would make it hard to persecute them. But you can't hide it if you are obese. Also obese people are slower and can't run away as fast. It is much easier to identify them and then persecute them once you have identified them.

Think of this as the hunger games interpretation of the Bible. Which of course is always best for those who live in the capital, the ones on the proper ground.

[Please do not quote out of context. This is the "twilight zone" of this forum, where calling down hellfire on 350 million people is described as "evangelical"]

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

But think of how practical this is. People can hide the fact that they are homosexuals, that would make it hard to persecute them. But you can't hide it if you are obese. Also obese people are slower and can't run away as fast. It is much easier to identify them and then persecute them once you have identified them.

Think of this as the hunger games interpretation of the Bible. Which of course is always best for those who live in the capital, the ones on the proper ground.

[Please do not quote out of context. This is the "twilight zone" of this forum, where calling down hellfire on 350 million people is described as "evangelical"]

ZNPaaneah, the gospel is about preventing God's spiritual judgement. Christians standing up for marriage are about preventing God's temporal judgement as well.
Americans are perhaps worried about the nuclear weapons other countries might have pointed at them. They don't consider whether God has a "nuclear weapon" pointing at them as well (Psalm 64:7).
A thinking and rational person would consider God's judgement to be worse than a nuclear weapon.

So America has two plausible reasons for not addressing this matter, either:
1) God doesn't exist
2) God doesn't care and won't judge

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

awareness,

we have to read Jude 1:7 which makes clear the connection with homosexuality.

The pride, excess of food (obesity), ease, and not aiding the poor and needy, is also an important issue. Christians have always tried to address these issues as well.

Not surprisingly Ezekiel and Jude, different people who wrote at different times, interpret the story of Lot in different ways and arrive at different conclusions.

[zeek]

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/...p.html?start=1

Here is an evangelical view that at least makes some moral sense as opposed to much of what I'm hearing from the Religious Right.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by zeek

Not surprisingly Ezekiel and Jude, different people who wrote at different times, interpret the story of Lot in different ways and arrive at different conclusions.

How about this. If you can tell, what is the least negative thing you can find about Sodom and Gomorrah. Let us assume that this least negative thing is the basis upon which God destroyed it. On that basis we can see how America compares. If it's obesity, well sorry, but God will judge America for obesity.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Not surprisingly Ezekiel and Jude, different people who wrote at different times, interpret the story of Lot in different ways and arrive at different conclusions.

The Bible likes to keep us guessing. Question??? Does the Bible solve the POE?

One of the most beloved (to LCDers) leading critical Bible scholars tackled that question in his book "God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer," and came up with bupkis, as the title indicates. (a good book by the way).

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

awareness,

we have to read Jude 1:7 which makes clear the connection with homosexuality.

The pride, excess of food (obesity), ease, and not aiding the poor and needy, is also an important issue. Christians have always tried to address these issues as well.

Good point about Jude 1:7. But finished the context and there are many more "disposables." We don't see the Westboro Baptist types protesting them ; just the gays.

And what about that "eternal fire" that S & G were subject to? Is the eternal fire of hell the same eternal fire, which wasn't eternal for S & G, except for the ashes?

The eternal fire of hell, commonly taught, also doesn't bode well for a Good God. That's a really, really, big everlasting POE.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Good point about Jude 1:7. But finished the context and there are many more "disposables." We don't see the Westboro Baptist types protesting them ; just the gays.

And what about that "eternal fire" that S & G were subject to? Is the eternal fire of hell the same eternal fire, which wasn't eternal for S & G, except for the ashes?

The eternal fire of hell, commonly taught, also doesn't bode well for a Good God. That's a really, really, big everlasting POE.

Yes there are more, so makes homosexuality OK does it? It was also gang rape and other things.

Hell is not evil, it's where evil people end up. God is in hell, and not affected by it. If God were good or evil like us, he would be affected by it. But since he is God, he transcends hell.