Parallel of Two Turmoils

Cal · 12-31-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBW

I was not saying that Indiana's work was useless or without value. Instead, I was pointing out that its style was prone to dissuade those who were otherwise not in disagreement with the LC.

I think those serious about writing books about the LC need to get the advice of a professional writer, and perhaps consider taking on a ghost writer. Otherwise an otherwise important message could be panned just because of an amateurish presentation.

He that hath an ear...

Toledo · 12-31-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igzy

and perhaps consider taking on a ghost writer.

Hmmm, that's the second reference I've read today about "chasing ghosts"...

Ohio · 12-31-2008, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igzy

I think those serious about writing books about the LC need to get the advice of a professional writer, and perhaps consider taking on a ghost writer. Otherwise an otherwise important message could be panned just because of an amateurish presentation.

He that hath an ear...

OBW and Igzy, this is a "layman's" forum. We are looking for "personal" reports. Yes, I do my best to "polish" my own posts, and admit that style and grammer do support the perception of historical accuracy in what I read. But placing the exacting requirements of professional writing upon this forum or one's personal website is not necessary, helpful or wise even to suggest. Please reconsider.

Another consideration becomes readily apparent once SI's account becomes an "official book." He becomes vulnerable to LSM's legal team at DCP. JCA faced this with ToG and opted for pseudonyms. That was her choice. Steve should be supported for his choice. Whether or not it is "ameuterish," is something he can improve with others' help.

Cal · 12-31-2008, 01:06 PM

Ohio,

I wasn't talking about personal websites or posts. I was talking about real books. I wasn't even talking about Steve. I've read two books published by former LCers. Jane Anderson's and John Myer's. Both are of professional quality.

My point was that anyone who wants their book to be well-received ought to at least find a friendly writer to proofread it for them and give them tips on writing. Friends can help, but an experienced writer will help more.

I've had several things published (no books) and I always at least get my wife to proofread them for me. (She rebukes me if I don't.) She almost always finds something wrong with my work, and more than once has saved me the embarrassment of submitting something that would have flopped.

If you publish in a conventional way, an editor will proofread and change your work before it goes out. But today anyone can self-publish and it might be tempting to skip having a knowledgeable proofreader. But that's a mistake in my opinion.

It's no offense to Steve, but frankly his writings read like the work of an unskilled writer, not helping to lessen the idea (which I'm sure LSM would like to play up) that he is a crank.

If any potential writers of LC history would like to send their work to me, I'd be happy to read it and offer suggestions.

Toledo · 12-31-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igzy

I've read two books published by former LCers. Jane Anderson's and John Myer's.

Just a minor caveat: Dear Jane is a former LCer. John Myer is not.

OBW · 12-31-2008, 02:28 PM

Ohio,

I understand your position. I did not intend to suggest that Steve’s work become a full-blown book, or that it needs to be grammatically correct (although too many gross grammatical errors often cause me to question the quality of what is being written as much as how it is written). I just feel that the tone of much of his work tends to drive a wedge between the content and potential readers. Ones who have seen the problems and are open to learn more about what has happened, especially in terms of what was essentially lied about — people like you, me, Terry, Toledo, and others — might ignore the tone since it is somewhat consistent with something that you/we already think. But those who have never even considered such things as possible but are lurking here (despite dire warnings of the BBs) are much more likely to simply move on to the next post or thread if it seems too didactically opposed, negative, or harsh without being given the opportunity to read real facts in a neutral way first.

Ohio · 12-31-2008, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toledo

Just a minor caveat: Dear Jane is a former LCer. John Myer is not.

Ahhhh ... I'm not so sure ... by his own admission he "was" ...

Toledo · 12-31-2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

Ahhhh ... I'm not so sure ... by his own admission he "was" ...

I am sure. I know him. It is not that he "was", but that he "is"...

Ohio · 12-31-2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toledo

I am sure. I know him. It is not that he "was", but that he "is"...

Are we once again parsing what the word "is" is?

Suannehill · 01-01-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igzy

Ohio, ...
My point was that anyone who wants their book to be well-received ought to at least find a friendly writer to proofread it for them and give them tips on writing. Friends can help, but an experienced writer will help more.

I've had several things published (no books) and I always at least get my wife to proofread them for me. (She rebukes me if I don't.) She almost always finds something wrong with my work, and more than once has saved me the embarrassment of submitting something that would have flopped...

I understand what you are saying and agree to a certain point. I have written some small things and the heavily edited second booklet lost ALL edge and spiritual benefit due to the editor.
So, it can work both ways.
Editing helps and hurts.
Sue

Indiana · 01-01-2009, 07:04 PM

Roger refers to 2003 when the defamation litigation was going on and I had a website up for 2 mos on Hiding History that showed publicly we had our own history of defamation. When it didn't work to get the brothers' attention for fellowship over our own history and case of defamation, I took the site down. One reason for doing that was to protect innocent saints from information that I felt should first be for elders. Another reason was that the site was actually a hindrance to pursuing fellowship over the history and also over my being received back into the church.

When brothers here and in Anaheim showed no interest for the next 2 years to have fellowship, I became interested in the forum and eventually posted writings on the forum. I hadn’t taken any website down again till now.

Incidently, I won't be a bit regretful for the hours I have spent; it has been a deep and meaningful enjoyment and there is a supply while in the throes of bringing to light the truth on behalf of many saints and the Lord's name.

Cal · 01-05-2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suannehill

I understand what you are saying and agree to a certain point. I have written some small things and the heavily edited second booklet lost ALL edge and spiritual benefit due to the editor.
So, it can work both ways.
Editing helps and hurts.
Sue

Good point. I used to get things published in a local paper. The editor had this irritating habit of changing my punctuation and so changing my meaning. Once he totally reversed the meaning of a sentence I wrote. Grrrrr.

The good news is the Indiana has the final say on any informal edits.

Cal · 01-05-2009, 09:01 AM

One thing I like about John Myer's writing is that he doesn't write with the tone or style of a local churcher. He doesn't say things like "these dear ones" or "may the Lord ever lead us...," which sound archaic. (Wouldn't "these dear folks" and "let's pray the Lord leads us..." be more accessible?) He writes for a modern audience. His book could be read by a non-LCer and the only odd thing would be the content, not the style.

WL used the same language and illustrations from 1955 to 1997. This might make some think his words sound timeless. Some said that Mr. Rogers, the children's TV host, did the same thing. They said his shows could be shown to any generation because he looked the same in 2001 as he did in 1968. He was timeless.

The problem is that Mr. Roger's popularity is waning. His style is behind the times. Some might say that's our loss, but regardless, he doesn't resonate like he used to.

The message of truth has to keep pace with the language of the times. Some might not like the Bible paraphrase The Message (My wife is deeply suspicious of it. I like it.), but what it does help to do is shatter the illusion that the Bible was written in some kind of lofty "high church" language. It wasn't. It was written in common language, the way people spoke at the time.

12-31-2008, 01:06 PM	#4
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,333	Re: Parallel of Two Turmoils Ohio, I wasn't talking about personal websites or posts. I was talking about real books. I wasn't even talking about Steve. I've read two books published by former LCers. Jane Anderson's and John Myer's. Both are of professional quality. My point was that anyone who wants their book to be well-received ought to at least find a friendly writer to proofread it for them and give them tips on writing. Friends can help, but an experienced writer will help more. I've had several things published (no books) and I always at least get my wife to proofread them for me. (She rebukes me if I don't.) She almost always finds something wrong with my work, and more than once has saved me the embarrassment of submitting something that would have flopped. If you publish in a conventional way, an editor will proofread and change your work before it goes out. But today anyone can self-publish and it might be tempting to skip having a knowledgeable proofreader. But that's a mistake in my opinion. It's no offense to Steve, but frankly his writings read like the work of an unskilled writer, not helping to lessen the idea (which I'm sure LSM would like to play up) that he is a crank. If any potential writers of LC history would like to send their work to me, I'd be happy to read it and offer suggestions.

12-31-2008, 02:28 PM	#6
OBW Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: DFW area Posts: 4,384	Re: Parallel of Two Turmoils Ohio, I understand your position. I did not intend to suggest that Steve’s work become a full-blown book, or that it needs to be grammatically correct (although too many gross grammatical errors often cause me to question the quality of what is being written as much as how it is written). I just feel that the tone of much of his work tends to drive a wedge between the content and potential readers. Ones who have seen the problems and are open to learn more about what has happened, especially in terms of what was essentially lied about — people like you, me, Terry, Toledo, and others — might ignore the tone since it is somewhat consistent with something that you/we already think. But those who have never even considered such things as possible but are lurking here (despite dire warnings of the BBs) are much more likely to simply move on to the next post or thread if it seems too didactically opposed, negative, or harsh without being given the opportunity to read real facts in a neutral way first. __________________ Mike I think . . . . I think I am . . . . therefore I am, I think — Edge OR . . . . You may be right, I may be crazy — Joel

01-01-2009, 07:04 PM	#11
Indiana Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 717	Re: Roger's concern Roger refers to 2003 when the defamation litigation was going on and I had a website up for 2 mos on Hiding History that showed publicly we had our own history of defamation. When it didn't work to get the brothers' attention for fellowship over our own history and case of defamation, I took the site down. One reason for doing that was to protect innocent saints from information that I felt should first be for elders. Another reason was that the site was actually a hindrance to pursuing fellowship over the history and also over my being received back into the church. When brothers here and in Anaheim showed no interest for the next 2 years to have fellowship, I became interested in the forum and eventually posted writings on the forum. I hadn’t taken any website down again till now. Incidently, I won't be a bit regretful for the hours I have spent; it has been a deep and meaningful enjoyment and there is a supply while in the throes of bringing to light the truth on behalf of many saints and the Lord's name. Last edited by Indiana; 01-01-2009 at 07:34 PM.

01-05-2009, 09:01 AM	#13
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,333	Re: Parallel of Two Turmoils One thing I like about John Myer's writing is that he doesn't write with the tone or style of a local churcher. He doesn't say things like "these dear ones" or "may the Lord ever lead us...," which sound archaic. (Wouldn't "these dear folks" and "let's pray the Lord leads us..." be more accessible?) He writes for a modern audience. His book could be read by a non-LCer and the only odd thing would be the content, not the style. WL used the same language and illustrations from 1955 to 1997. This might make some think his words sound timeless. Some said that Mr. Rogers, the children's TV host, did the same thing. They said his shows could be shown to any generation because he looked the same in 2001 as he did in 1968. He was timeless. The problem is that Mr. Roger's popularity is waning. His style is behind the times. Some might say that's our loss, but regardless, he doesn't resonate like he used to. The message of truth has to keep pace with the language of the times. Some might not like the Bible paraphrase The Message (My wife is deeply suspicious of it. I like it.), but what it does help to do is shatter the illusion that the Bible was written in some kind of lofty "high church" language. It wasn't. It was written in common language, the way people spoke at the time.