History by Don Rutledge

[Toledo]

Wonderful! Marvelous! Thank you so very much, Don!

I hope there is much more to come.

[OBW]

Don,

This is not a critique on the book, but an observation of a symptom of LC problems.

Fairly late in Chapter 2, you come to the “Life Ebbs at Elden” section. In there, you say: ”By early 1973 I began to hear of the staleness and flatness of the Elden hall church meetings. I visited there and frankly most of the new churches were much more on fire and lively in Christ than Elden was. Elden still had the ministry, but it was clear the blessing was not there. I heard Witness Lee state on many occasions that he needed to leave Elden, and that the Lord needed a new start with his ministry.”

I wonder how much of the emphasis on things of the “church life” was on maintaining the sense of “highs” rather than acknowledge that the spiritual life and journey is not only mountain tops, but is more often life on the plains and in the valleys. When we rank the spiritual condition of a person or group on his outward fire and zeal, the question must be asked: Is it live or is it Memorex?

I would suggest that a group will eventually reach an extreme in lows if it has been trying to maintain an artificial high for too long. If we presume that we must walk through the valley of the shadow of death, then the time we spend putting it off, even though we make it look like mountain top, is really a hollow show. The result will be a shortage of what it takes to make it through the valley, thereby causing the valley experience to be even more exaggerated.

Might that be the cause of Elden’s apparent fall from favor? Is it possible that they needed desperately to go through the valley, but had been kept from it by a need to maintain some “high” in support of “the ministry.”

I also notice that due to this lack of burning, Lee essentially abandoned them. I guess Paul should have abandoned the Corinthians and Galatians as being lost causes.

Was there really no blessing there? Is blessing only evident when on the mountain top? Or do blessings continue as we walk through the valley. Ad David said, "I fear no evil for You are with me." That is a blessing.

On a different topic, I enjoyed reading through these two chapters again.

[Hope]

Originally Posted by OBW

Don,

This is not a critique on the book, but an observation of a symptom of LC problems.

Fairly late in Chapter 2, you come to the “Life Ebbs at Elden” section. In there, you say: ”By early 1973 I began to hear of the staleness and flatness of the Elden hall church meetings. I visited there and frankly most of the new churches were much more on fire and lively in Christ than Elden was. Elden still had the ministry, but it was clear the blessing was not there. I heard Witness Lee state on many occasions that he needed to leave Elden, and that the Lord needed a new start with his ministry.”

I wonder how much of the emphasis on things of the “church life” was on maintaining the sense of “highs” rather than acknowledge that the spiritual life and journey is not only mountain tops, but is more often life on the plains and in the valleys. When we rank the spiritual condition of a person or group on his outward fire and zeal, the question must be asked: Is it live or is it Memorex?

I would suggest that a group will eventually reach an extreme in lows if it has been trying to maintain an artificial high for too long. If we presume that we must walk through the valley of the shadow of death, then the time we spend putting it off, even though we make it look like mountain top, is really a hollow show. The result will be a shortage of what it takes to make it through the valley, thereby causing the valley experience to be even more exaggerated.

Might that be the cause of Elden’s apparent fall from favor? Is it possible that they needed desperately to go through the valley, but had been kept from it by a need to maintain some “high” in support of “the ministry.”

I also notice that due to this lack of burning, Lee essentially abandoned them. I guess Paul should have abandoned the Corinthians and Galatians as being lost causes.

Was there really no blessing there? Is blessing only evident when on the mountain top? Or do blessings continue as we walk through the valley. Ad David said, "I fear no evil for You are with me." That is a blessing.

On a different topic, I enjoyed reading through these two chapters again.

Brother Mike,

A most insightful observation. I cannot agree more. Since my departure from the LSM/LC, perhaps the number one lesson the Lord has been teaching me is to care for His members regardless of how successful they are etc. It is so easy to be for the Lord and loving others when all is going great guns.

Romans chapter 15 has become a constant reference for me. We must bear those who seem to “have no strength.” We must have hope for them. The chapter reaches its peak with verse 13, Rom 15:13, “Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.”

When you take the context, it is clear that the hope is for the struggling saint. To care for such a dear believer requires the power of the Holy Spirit.

Thanks Mike for this critique of events in the past.

Hope, Don Rutledge

A believer in Christ Jesus who is seeking to be a true disciple.

John 8:31-32, Jesus therefore was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. "

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

Fairly late in Chapter 2, you come to the “Life Ebbs at Elden” section. In there, you say: ”By early 1973 I began to hear of the staleness and flatness of the Elden hall church meetings. I visited there and frankly most of the new churches were much more on fire and lively in Christ than Elden was. Elden still had the ministry, but it was clear the blessing was not there. I heard Witness Lee state on many occasions that he needed to leave Elden, and that the Lord needed a new start with his ministry.”

Regardless of how this comment is viewed, that fact that it occurred was apparently a closely guarded secret. I had always heard that Elden et. al. moved to Anaheim due to deteriorating neighborhood conditions in South LA. Having been to neither place, and being a young devotee, I accepted whatever I was told of our history. I was also told that wherever the church was "open" to the ministry of WL, then revival and spiritual vibrancy abounded upon all attendants.

Obviously the history I became familiar with was biased. No one in my neck of the woods was willing or able to provide anything better. James Reetzke Sr. of Chicago wrote some, but his point of view was always overly positive, just rehearsing the blessing, but never addressing the source of failures, which often times is more valuable for succeeding generations. I have never heard a minister at LSM own up to any failure. Ours was a history of the "blame game," i.e. storms from without and rebellions from within.

[Hope]

Witness Lee himself openly spoke about the condition in Elden. It was a big issue at the January, 1974 elders/co-workers meeting. Yes, there was some talk about the neighborhood around Elden. Maybe that later became the alibi for the relocation. I plan to write a lot about what was going on in 1973-75. Everything changed!!!

The failure of the blessing at Elden even though they had WL became the basis for Ray and Benson and Ben to push for WL to move or at least spend a major part of his time in Texas. They all contended that the ministry needed the proper audience and that Texas could provide the proper container for the ministry.


Hope, Don Rutledge

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Hope

Witness Lee himself openly spoke about the condition in Elden. It was a big issue at the January, 1974 elders/co-workers meeting. Yes, there was some talk about the neighborhood around Elden. Maybe that later became the alibi for the relocation. I plan to write a lot about what was going on in 1973-75. Everything changed!!!

The failure of the blessing at Elden even though they had WL became the basis for Ray and Benson and Ben to push for WL to move or at least spend a major part of his time in Texas. They all contended that the ministry needed the proper audience and that Texas could provide the proper container for the ministry.

I had just read a contradictory report. The testimonies I had heard of Eldon Hall of the early seventies in later years, was prior to migrations to the LA area, the neighborhood was already bad. It was the brothers and sisters who brought a blessing to the neighborhood.
It could be by the time households began migrating for other localities and away from these neighborhoods, the neighborhood environment deteriorated.

Terry

[Hope]

Originally Posted by Terry

I had just read a contradictory report. The testimonies I had heard of Eldon Hall of the early seventies in later years, was prior to migrations to the LA area, the neighborhood was already bad. It was the brothers and sisters who brought a blessing to the neighborhood.
It could be by the time households began migrating for other localities and away from these neighborhoods, the neighborhood environment deteriorated.

Terry

The poor neighborhood was a concurrent event with the downward slide of the hall. You could live 20-30 minutes as some did and fully be involved in the meeting and service life.

What changed Eldon hall was the establishing of three other halls in LA and the out migrations to Chicago, Atlanta etc. The saints left but the ministry stayed. The high time in the Spirit went with the saints.

I cannot remember the reason why but Ray Graver and I visited Eldon hall sometime early in 1973. The attendance was very low. That Lord's day a brother from Africa who was then living in LA gave the message in the first meeting, (New Beginners). Witness Lee spoke in the second meeting. Afterward Ray and I were with Witness Lee. WL expressed his disappointment with the condition of Eldon hall, not with the neighborhood. He said how disappointed he was that the brother from Africa was a ministering brother and no one could understand his African English. He told us more than once that he needed a new start in a new place.

Hope, Don Rutledge

[Indiana]

What Hope shared on another thread stirred my interest anew about what really happened in the Southeast.

In 2003 I asked Bill Mallon to answer the claims made against him in Fermentation by different brothers and he did - except for the most important one, which he did work on - John Little's lengthy claims concerning Bill and John.



Dear Steve,

I have taken time for the past two days to write a response to the accusations John Little made against us which you had sent a few days ago. While writing it, I was energized, which I take to be the prompting of the Holy Spirit. I need another couple of days to polish it, plus I want Ingalls and **** to glance over it. It is now 2 and 1/2 pages.

In Him,
Bill (email, June 4, 2003)

http://www.makingstraightthewayofthe...lonAnswers.pdf