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[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

... then fighting against abortion and gays must be the job of mean-spirited SOBs. They call themselves Christians, so I guess I can't be a Christian anymore. That is where that logic seems to lead.

What if some Christians feel they are accountable for doing nothing to defend the unborn and protect the sanctity of marriage? In your mind they are all "mean-spirited SOBs?" Really?

Then how do you define "Christian?" What if some other Christians spent the same amount of time speaking against abortion and the gay movement, as you have against Lee and the Recovery? What if some Christian got released from LGBT, and felt compelled to inform others? Are they then worse Christians than you? As someone once said, "That is where that logic seems to lead."

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What if some Christians feel they are accountable for doing nothing to defend the unborn and protect the sanctity of marriage? In your mind they are all "mean-spirited SOBs?" Really?

Then how do you define "Christian?" What if some other Christians spent the same amount of time speaking against abortion and the gay movement, as you have against Lee and the Recovery? What if some Christian got released from LGBT, and felt compelled to inform others? Are they then worse Christians than you? As someone once said, "That is where that logic seems to lead."

The question is not that there is or is not speaking against those things. The issue is how. With nasty rhetoric and placards marching in the streets vilifying them as persons? Or in reasoned discussion concerning the claims of right, or the rational limitations of freedom of one person compared to the freedom of another?

The latter is how we hope that we deal with the errors of Nee, Lee, and the LCM. Not just with harsh rhetoric, but with evidence that they are wrong. With reasons to rethink.

When it comes to some of these political issues, we can say what we want about speaking for God's morality. We do live in a secular society, not a theocracy, so the rules that the majority decide on are what we get. That does not mean don't seek any kind of input. Or don't speak for the unborn.

But engagement in these areas is full of pitfalls for the Christian. It is not just about our sense of morality. It is also about our attitude toward those who do not even pretend to be Christian who disagree with us. If we are close enough to speak, they are our neighbor (even if electronically). How do we treat them? Like we want to be treated?

But those are not anything like even a major part of "liberalism" and you have distilled my question to those items. You can talk about those things until the cows come home. But don't pretend that you have addressed my question.

[zeek]

http://religionnews.com/2016/05/01/c...-donald-trump/

"The ascendancy of a demagogic candidate and his message, with the angry constituency he is fueling, is a threat to both the values of our faith and the health of our democracy. Donald Trump directly promotes racial and religious bigotry, disrespects the dignity of women, harms civil public discourse, offends moral decency, and seeks to manipulate religion."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

http://religionnews.com/2016/05/01/c...-donald-trump/

"The ascendancy of a demagogic candidate and his message, with the angry constituency he is fueling, is a threat to both the values of our faith and the health of our democracy. Donald Trump directly promotes racial and religious bigotry, disrespects the dignity of women, harms civil public discourse, offends moral decency, and seeks to manipulate religion."

Compared to what the Clintons and Yobamas have done, the Trumps are like a boy scout club.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Compared to what the Clintons and Yobamas have done, the Trumps are like a boy scout club.

Bigots prefer Trump. http://www.blueridgemuse.com/node/36587

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Bigots prefer Trump.

It's a smear campaign by the liberal left. I have watched them twist his words for months.

Hillary just railed on men "going off the reservation" and all native Americans, and she got a free pass. She and Yobama are the worst thing that ever happened to women and the African-Americans.

Try to see past the distorted political rhetoric and get to the facts. I know that's hard for you to do, but please try.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's a smear campaign by the liberal left. I have watched them twist his words for months.

Hillary just railed on men "going off the reservation" and all native Americans, and she got a free pass. She and Yobama are the worst thing that ever happened to women and the African-Americans.

Try to see past the distorted political rhetoric and get to the facts. I know that's hard for you to do, but please try.

The distorted political rhetoric is coming out of Trump. You're in good company with the KKK and the Neo-Nazi's who support Trump, bro .

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's a smear campaign by the liberal left. I have watched them twist his words for months.

Maybe.

But I have also heard his words and been convinced that I cannot vote for him. This may truly be the demise of the Republican Party. While no less variety of thought than is within the Democratic Party, the third-party candidates generally do not appeal to them, so they always return to the fold. For the Republicans, there are too many who will simply strike out on their own (Libertarians, Tea-Party, Perot, Paul, and so on). And to vote for those is to ensure that the Democrats get it. And maybe they should. Trump doesn't just get maligned for things he doesn't say. He is attacked constantly with what he does say. If he really doesn't mean it, then I suggest a serious character flaw beyond his narcissism. He cannot be trusted to say what he means.

Maybe Hillary really is the better choice. (Did I really say that out loud?)