Leaders of the Lord's Recovery

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

When Witness Lee passed, the brothers loyal to him said, "The age of spiritual giants is over." Thus they declared that Lee was, indeed, one of these giants that damage the Body life. By their own words they indicted themselves, that they had created a monstrous "giant".

Originally Posted by Jane Anderson

When I got into trouble in the Local Church, I was accused of trying to be a spiritual giant and of seeking my own individual spirituality. I was told that the age of spiritual giants was over and that this was the age of the church, the "corporate Christ." But the truth is that there is no such thing as a spiritual giant. p.310

The LC faithful told JA that the age of spiritual giants was over, but when WL died, they tried to resurrect the theme. NOW, they said, the age of spiritual giants is over, now that WL has passed on.

Anyone who is called a spiritual giant, on this side of the Judgment Seat of Christ, is being delusional.

[OBW]

I honestly believe that there are spiritual giants. But that is not about great teaching. Or great skills at preaching. Or even evangelism. It is about great commitment to Christ and his people.

They are our servants, not our leaders in the way of the Pharisees.

But the day of "spiritual" giants in the manner of Lee is also not over. They proliferate. They promote themselves. They even call on the name of the Lord.

And one day they will call his name once again and learn that they were never authorized for such status.

[aron]

Originally Posted by OBW

I honestly believe that there are spiritual giants. But that is not about great teaching. Or great skills at preaching. Or even evangelism. It is about great commitment to Christ and his people.

They are our servants, not our leaders in the way of the Pharisees..

I don't think the term spiritual giants is incorrect, in the way you use it. The scripture says star differs from star in glory, and some have greater portion allotted from the Father.

But I used it in the way the OT uses it, pejoratively. The giants (Gk: grigori) were the unholy offspring of disobedient "sons of God" and the daughters of men. "There were giants on the earth in those days..." Gen 6:4.

And I think the Blendeds invited that application in characterizing one of their own as a giant. I remember distinctly hearing in 1997, that "The age of spiritual giants is over; it is the age of small potatos now", which directly implied that the recently deceased Witness Lee was the last of the spiritual giants.

In the NT there are characterizations of multitalented (5- or 10-talents, for example) servants, who are especially useful in the Master's hand. But "giants" in Biblical usage are those who raise themselves up against the Most High God. I'm surprised Lee and Company talked themselves into thinking this term could be applied positively, in the way they used it. That's why I said that they indicted themselves with their own words.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by aron

But I used it in the way the OT uses it, pejoratively. The giants (Gk: grigori) were the unholy offspring of disobedient "sons of God" and the daughters of men. "There were giants on the earth in those days..." Gen 6:4.

I understand.

And in that sense, you make a point by a little equivocation. But unlike some equivocation, this one may actually be relevant since the only kind of giants that act in the manner of Lee and many other somewhat megalomaniacs are the ones that were unholy offspring. So maybe it is they who misused the word to imply something that was not what was true.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Witness Lee

"The practice of today’s Christianity is absolutely different in principle. Wherever there is a gifted person, a spiritual “giant” with a certain gift, that person will begin a work. He will build up a certain Christian organization or ministry, and possibly call it some worthy name. We are not opposing anyone, but we are against the wrong principles which damage the Body life."

From what I've seen in the LC, any amount of individual spirituality expressed could be potential characterized as seeking to be a "spiritual giant". It's just their way of discrediting those who don't fit the LC mold, namely their notion that all manifestations of spirituality must be "corporate".

I remember hearing a LCer wistfully say how all the outsiders coming to a Christians on Campus Bible study knew more of the Bible than they did. The average LCer might think that they know the Bible better than any other Christians. That knowledge, however, is mostly limited to all the key LC verse and passages that are frequently referenced.

What this all leads to is that anyone who has ventured outside the standard LC repertoire of material and cookie cutter fake spirituality is going to stand out noticeably. In an environment that desperately needs "normal Christians", such people could actually be a benefit to LCers. Thus, these people are threats to LC leaders. I personally have seen people come through the LC who would put most LC elders to shame in terms of what they know about the Bible. In the LC they can't have anyone interrupting the authority structure and it is conveniently to label such people as argumentative, independent, "not clear about God's economy", or whatever else is convenient. It's really all the same. Calling someone a spiritual giant is just another LC method to discredit someone, and the LC has many, many methods for doing so.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

From what I've seen in the LC, any amount of individual spirituality expressed could be potential characterized as seeking to be a "spiritual giant". It's just their way of discrediting those who don't fit the LC mold, namely their notion that all manifestations of spirituality must be "corporate".

The LSM concept of building is one layer high like a wheat field, except for Lee who stands out like a transmission tower in the midst of the wheat field.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

What this all leads to is that anyone who has ventured outside the standard LC repertoire of material and cookie cutter fake spirituality is going to stand out noticeably. In an environment that desperately needs "normal Christians", such people could actually be a benefit to LCers. Thus, these people are threats to LC leaders. I personally have seen people come through the LC who would put most LC elders to shame in terms of what they know about the Bible. In the LC they can't have anyone interrupting the authority structure and it is conveniently to label such people as argumentative, independent, "not clear about God's economy", or whatever else is convenient. It's really all the same. Calling someone a spiritual giant is just another LC method to discredit someone, and the LC has many, many methods for doing so.

“Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, ‘Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.’ His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
“And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’ Matthew 25:22-25

LC/LSM culture is just like in verse 25. There's so much rhetoric against multi-talented members, the message that's been promoted is we should all be the same one talented members. Even members who may be two talented members will be viewed as having the wrong concepts, individualistic, ambitious ,and as Freedom has said...whatever else is convenient.

Two lessons for sure a LSM-LCer may learn from a non-LSM Christian is love and grace.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

“Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, ‘Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.’ His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
“And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’ Matthew 25:22-25

I like this parable because it emphasizes individual responsibility/accountability. This is a concept that is foreign to most LCers, because everything happens at the group level. In the LC, someone cannot trod far down the path of individual spiritual growth without being viewed suspiciously.

As I started to become concerned about the LC, there was an interesting phenomena that I noticed. The elders would regularly criticize the rank and file for failing to take initiative in an activity, to attend a conference/training or even something like preach the gospel. They usually call this being "lukewarm". At the same time, the minute anyone took any amount of initiative, they quickly got "corrected". It's no wonder that so many of the rank and file choose to live in the shadows, waiting until they are called upon to do anything at all. The elders know this and are frustrated by this, but at the same time they also know that they can't encourage anyone to take initiative. It's just one of those things that I'm sure drives members crazy and they probably can't ever put their finger on what the real problem is.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

As I started to become concerned about the LC, there was an interesting phenomena that I noticed. The elders would regularly criticize the rank and file for failing to take initiative in an activity, to attend a conference/training or even something like preach the gospel. They usually call this being "lukewarm". At the same time, the minute anyone took any amount of initiative, they quickly got "corrected". It's no wonder that so many of the rank and file choose to live in the shadows, waiting until they are called upon to do anything at all. The elders know this and are frustrated by this, but at the same time they also know that they can't encourage anyone to take initiative. It's just one of those things that I'm sure drives members crazy and they probably can't ever put their finger on what the real problem is.

Problem here is initiative is likened to ambition. As soon as someone exercises the initiative to preach the gospel or go door knocking, he/she may be labeled as "ambitious to have a following". It becomes church culture to bury your extra talents and be one-talented members just like everyone else. Don't exercise initiative and certain don't share from the Bible apart from the ministry.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

Problem here is initiative is likened to ambition. As soon as someone exercises the initiative to preach the gospel or go door knocking, he/she may be labeled as "ambitious to have a following". It becomes church culture to bury your extra talents and be one-talented members just like everyone else. Don't exercise initiative and certain don't share from the Bible apart from the ministry.

I think if LC leaders were to self-reflect, they would realized that the path to leadership happened through their own initiative and ambitions. Benson is the prime example of this. This is not to say that initiative is bad or that ambition is bad, but there is a double standard. The rank and file are commonly corrected for being too ambitious or for taking their own initiative.

The reality of the situation is that outside the LC, few people are truly content with sitting around and wasting away, setting aside all their usefulness, goals, etc. I believe that this is one of the things that really has make the LC unappealing on a broad scale. People don't want to be dumbed down to parroting a dead man's words. Of course LC members are willing to do this, but they really a minority.

As long as there is this kind of mindset in the LC, it can never amount to anything. When the LC started, all kinds of people came in. Members then took initiative to invite friends and tell people about the LC. If someone were to do the same thing today, it's as Terry says, they might be labeled as being independent, seeking a following, or I have even heard implications that people who are successful in the gospel can become too "proud".

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

As long as there is this kind of mindset in the LC, it can never amount to anything. When the LC started, all kinds of people came in. Members then took initiative to invite friends and tell people about the LC. If someone were to do the same thing today, it's as Terry says, they might be labeled as being independent, seeking a following, or I have even heard implications that people who are successful in the gospel can become too "proud".

At one time you would want to invite your friends, but this was at a time local churches had more of a local church atmosphere. The lead elder would give a message. Now there's just the unspoken sense this is a ministry church and not a local church. When you're reading from a booklet, you don't feel to comfortable inviting friends. It's just not an atmosphere that is for the basic believer. Even for children raised in this environment, many may feel they don't conform to the cookie cutter mold and would be best served meeting somewhere else.