Leaders of the Lord's Recovery

[Lisbon]

If this is pure redundancy, please delete.

It seems incredible that very shortly before the cross, the Lord caught his disciples arguing about who was to be boss, MOTA, dictator, oracle,etc. He spoke directly to the problem. Hear me you disciples, what you are talking about is the way the gentiles operate. With you it is not going to be that way. Whoever is to be great is going to be your servant. It seems that's not that difficult to understand. No kings, dictators, oracles. By the way oracle is not mentioned in the NT except refering to the OT. Peter instructs all of us to speak as oracles of God but never one Oracle. No singular apostle, only apostles spoken of in NT. I almost wanted to vomit at poor RK's going on about WL as a bond slave at the time of Lee's passing. I never heard of anyone disagreeing with WL and living to tell about it. WL had no co-Workers. What? A slave. It's just plain silly.

Lisbon

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Lisbon

If this is pure redundancy, please delete.

It seems incredible that very shortly before the cross, the Lord caught his disciples arguing about who was to be boss, MOTA, dictator, oracle,etc. He spoke directly to the problem. Hear me you disciples, what you are talking about is the way the gentiles operate. With you it is not going to be that way. Whoever is to be great is going to be your servant. It seems that's not that difficult to understand. No kings, dictators, oracles.

Yes, Lisbon, that was pure redundancy, at least for those of us who read the Bible, but keep saying it, since few in leadership seem to be hearing.

Originally Posted by Lisbon

By the way oracle is not mentioned in the NT except referring to the OT. Peter instructs all of us to speak as oracles of God but never one Oracle. No singular apostle, only apostles spoken of in NT. I almost wanted to vomit at poor RK's going on about WL as a bond slave at the time of Lee's passing. I never heard of anyone disagreeing with WL and living to tell about it. WL had no co-Workers. What? A slave. It's just plain silly.

That's kind of like these career politicians in Wash DC calling themselves "public servants."

The only true "public servants" are the volunteers.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Indiana

In Bill Mallon's letter to Witness Lee he describes the troubling maneuvering of co-workers of Witness Lee in the Southeast to establish ministry-centered churches. Ron Kangas refers to Bill's letter in his message in Ecuador after denouncing me for putting the letter on the internet. Then, before the Body, he dismisses Bill's letter and Bill, with no regard for his testimony or the divisive behavior of the co-workers. I am denounced, Bill's experience is disregarded, and Ron pushes his agenda forward in South America, in Christless fashion, to establish ministry churches in alignment with him, with Anaheim, with the program - in the same spirit of the movement Bill Mallon reported 20 years earlier.

Bill Mallon and John Ingalls were compelled to meet and seek the Lord over their growing concerns.

John Ingalls in Talks with Bill Mallon

“In the following month, September 1987, due to my health, and also due to a burden to fellowship with Bill Mallon, a co-worker with whom I had an intimate relationship for twenty-four years, I decided to go to Atlanta, Georgia, for a two-week period of rest and fellowship. Bill had recently passed through sore trials and sufferings, and I hoped that our fellowship could render comfort and encouragement to him. We drove up to the nearby mountains and had a number of days opening to one another.

At that time I was entirely supportive to Brother Witness Lee and his ministry and work related to the “new way” that was being promoted. I therefore did my utmost to persuade Bill to visit Taiwan and participate in the full-time training. I felt that this might be the answer to his need. On four separate occasions during those days I attempted to convince Bill to take this step, but he steadfastly refused, affirming that he was not free or clear to do that.

During that time Bill explained to me how he had suffered in various ways by events that had transpired in recent months in the churches and in the work in the Southeast. I came away from our talks with one deep impression: Philip Lee was becoming increasingly involved in spiritual things concerning the Lord’s work, the churches, the elders, and the co-workers. I had already noticed this in Irving, Texas the preceding month. This, I felt, was completely untenable, incompatible with his position and person, and intolerable. Philip Lee was employed by his father, Witness Lee, to be the business manager of his office and was reportedly instructed to deal only with business affairs. He was totally unqualified both in position and character to touch spiritual matters related to the work of the Lord and the churches. I became alarmed and began to fear for the Lord’s testimony. With this burden I determined upon my return to Anaheim to fellowship with Godfrey Otuteye, who then was involved in coordinating with Philip Lee in the Living Stream Office. I wanted to frankly ask him about Philip’s role, expressing my alarm and concern”.

Discussion Concerning LSM Manager

Godfred had been an elder in the church in Irvine, California, for close to ten years, and had recently been appointed as an elder in Anaheim by Brother Witness Lee. Thus we had been put into a position of more intimate fellowship and coordination. I had known Godfred since 1972 and over the years had numerous occasions of fellowship with him. I respected him for his genuineness, wisdom, and devotion to the Lord. Hence, upon returning from Atlanta on Sept. 22, 1987, I made an appointment for dinner with Godfred on September 25, Friday evening.

We sat together in the restaurant, and after some general conversation, I said to him in a serious tone, “Godfred, I would like to ask you a question. Would you please tell me who Philip Lee is? It seems that he is being promoted and is going altogether too far in his involvement in the spiritual side of the work, greatly overstepping his position as a business manager. Have you noticed this? I myself could never agree with this.”

It seemed that my question took him by surprise. We had never discussed these matters before. He hesitated a few moments. Then, in a very grave tone, he replied, “John, the situation is very serious.” If he was surprised by my question, I was somewhat taken aback by his answer. Godfred continued, “I have seen and heard many things in the Living Stream Office in recent months. I cannot go into detail, but I can tell you there is much that is very serious and very wrong.” Then I began to be more alarmed and concerned. Godfred fully agreed that Philip Lee’s involvement in the work was way out of line, but he indicated that there were more serious things than that.

Two days later, on Sept. 27, the Lord’s Day, as we met in the Elders’ Room before the morning meeting on Ball Road, Godfred had a few moments alone with me, and he said, “John, it is very timely that you opened up to me the other night. Let me tell you that the whole situation is sick and corrupt. I have seen and heard too much.” Then I knew that we were really in trouble, though he did not mention any details or any names.

A Shocking Development
September 1987

On the following Tuesday, Sept. 29th, Godfred left for a business trip to Europe. On the next day, Wednesday, Sept. 30th, I received a telephone call from a sister who had a prominent position in the Living Stream Ministry Office, asking if she could see me that night. I consented. That evening she sat in my living room and with tears opened her heart to me. She had served sacrificially and faithfully for many years in the LSM office, and now she said she could not tolerate anymore the gross misconduct that was being perpetrated upon some and especially upon her. I had been acquainted with this sister for many years and knew her to be faithful, upright, and trustworthy; therefore, I took her word very seriously. I was amazed that she could put up with such conduct for so long. She stated that she tolerated it only for the sake of Brother Lee and his ministry. She said that she had no other recourse but to resign. I confirmed her intention.

That conversation utterly shocked me. I deeply felt that something must be done to acquaint Brother Lee with the situation and to let him know that we would not tolerate it. I obtained Godfred’s telephone number in Europe and called him as soon as the difference in time zones permitted, telling him the things that had come to my ears. Godfred listened and said that he already knew it. I was amazed. That night I considered what could be done. That we had to go to Brother Lee I was certain.



Link to John Ingalls' book, Speaking the Truth in Love.
www.twoturmoils.com/johningalls.pdf

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Lee may have lost half of the SoCal Recovery due to Philip's abusive streak... What we really needed to hear was a sobering repentance concerning how much damage Lee and son had wrought on God's people, complete with basic details. All Christians can understand that.

[Quote is from a different thread]

www.twoturmoils.com/ATrueManofDeath.pdf

[Indiana]

This restoration letter was read at a church meeting in Anaheim, August 22, 1993, although Philip had never repented for anything publicly or to anyone privately, certainly not elders, and, no sisters at LSM that those who were close to the Anaheim situation heard of. Also, no word was ever given publicly in the churches about Philip Lee’s major role in causing division, as graphically seen interwoven throughout the accounts of John Ingalls, Bill Mallon, and John So.

http://www.twoturmoils.com/PhilipHis...ninAnaheim.pdf

[Ohio]

Indiana said:

This restoration letter was read at a church meeting in Anaheim, August 22, 1993, although Philip had never repented for anything publicly or to anyone privately, certainly not elders, and, no sisters at LSM that those who were close to the Anaheim situation heard of. Also, no word was ever given publicly in the churches about Philip Lee’s major role in causing division, as graphically seen interwoven throughout the accounts of John Ingalls, Bill Mallon, and John So.

Yet Ed Marks recently told ZNPaaneah in NYC that he did it because it "pleased Brother Lee."

[Ohio]

Indiana said:

This restoration letter was read at a church meeting in Anaheim, August 22, 1993, although Philip had never repented for anything publicly or to anyone privately, certainly not elders, and, no sisters at LSM that those who were close to the Anaheim situation heard of. Also, no word was ever given publicly in the churches about Philip Lee’s major role in causing division, as graphically seen interwoven throughout the accounts of John Ingalls, Bill Mallon, and John So.

Yet Ed Marks recently told ZNPaaneah in NYC that he did it because it "pleased Brother Lee."

Just think about how many sinful, unrighteous things were done at LSM because it "pleased Brother Lee."

[NewManLiving]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Indiana said:

Yet Ed Marks recently told ZNPaaneah in NYC that he did it because it "pleased Brother Lee."

Just think about how many sinful, unrighteous things were done at LSM because it "pleased Brother Lee."

Yes Ed also told him, rather mindlessly, that Phillip went to be "with the Lord". I would like to think that he did. However, repentance under those circumstances would involve confession and restitution. Also since none of them think they did anything wrong there is the probability that Phillip never did repent. His fellow co-workers are just as guilty for not taking a stand for righteousness but instead turned against those dear defenseless saints and continue to do so today. How unconscionable, May the Lord Judge and bring about true repentance

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Indiana said:

Yet Ed Marks recently told ZNPaaneah in NYC that he did it because it "pleased Brother Lee."

Just think about how many sinful, unrighteous things were done at LSM because it "pleased Brother Lee."

The fact that leaders like Ed could admit without remorse to being Lee-pleasers shows how numb they have really become. The fact that this doesn't bother the rank and file shows how well the blendeds have insulated themselves.

At this point in time, the facts have long since been made available for those who wish to know the truth. What remains is a need for LC leaders to repent. That may never happen, but what can be done is to help keep LC members from being led astray by these leaders.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Indiana said:

Yet Ed Marks recently told ZNPaaneah in NYC that he did it because it "pleased Brother Lee."

Just think about how many sinful, unrighteous things were done at LSM because it "pleased Brother Lee."

Another illustration how LSM practices consequentialism....."the end justifies the means".