"God in life and nature but not in the Godhead"

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

More than anything else, the way WL lived and the choices that he made are what ultimately determine the value of his ministry, not how "good" his teachings were. As Indiana has pointed out, where was love in the equation? WL even made the admonition that there needed to be a spirit of love. I can't say as to whether WL was being genuine in this admonition or not, but the fact that so much of the supposed "good" in WL's ministry failed to materialize is indication that there was something terribly wrong.

The irony is simply incredible. After decades of publicly shaming his coworkers, suing all those who dared to protest his extreme teachings, and slaming all those who dared to voice their concerns, Witness Lee is going to preach about brotherly love?

I guess "god in life and nature" does not include "god in love."

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The irony is simply incredible. After decades of publicly shaming his coworkers, suing all those who dared to protest his extreme teachings, and slaming all those who dared to voice their concerns, Witness Lee is going to preach about brotherly love?

I guess "god in life and nature" does not include "god in love."

The Hijacking of the Local Churches

In the days when the “local churches” were essentially hijacked by unrestrained men in a world-wide movement, things happened fast and furiously in the name of being in one accord for “the Lord’s new move”. When the dust settled, a federation of churches had been established under the direction and control of an administrator and a headquarters in Anaheim.

Along with the hijacking was the attacking of conscientious leaders in a cyclone of events that issued in their quarantines and their public annihilation, with disdain of a magnitude unimaginable; except when considering the source and the inroads given the Accuser of the brethren to have full sway in brutal and false portrayal of men and events; and their motives and intentions in a movement designed to turn leaders and churches upside down.

A Book of Distortion

In a concluding word by Witness Lee in The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion(FPR), he says, “Since the dissenting ones have made their rebellion so obvious, so public, even by their publications, I feel obliged to present to you all the fermenting events of the present rebellion in the Lord’s recovery that you may be clear about the intrinsic reasons and causes of all the fermentations. In the church as a corporate Body composed of many different persons with their different realizations and views, problems are sometimes unavoidable in the long run. According to the New Testament, such problems should be properly taken care of in the divine love by genuine and thorough fellowship in the Spirit, with constant forgiveness, all-caring forbearance, self-depreciating humility, merciful sympathy, and gracious help in mutuality”.

“Instead of these excellent Christian virtues, what we see in the present rebellion are exaggerated criticisms, cruel backbitings, unreasonable opposings, subtle underminings, wicked defamations, vicious slanders, unethical anonymous letters, bitter attacks, ill-intentioned conspiracies, crafty innuendos, double-tongued pretenses, fabricated falsehood, flagrant lies, reckless devastations, and unbridled destructions, with unimaginable hatred, fleshly jealousies, and unchristian avengings. These are not the fruit of enjoying Christ, nor are they good for the building up of the saints and the building of the churches. Even to make such a presentation of the facts is not pleasant to me. For quite a long time I have been hesitating before the Lord as to whether I should do this or not, and I have consulted with the brothers about this.

“They all encouraged me to do it for the preservation of the uninformed ones, for the recovery of the deceived ones, for the establishing of the wavering and bothered ones, and for history. Thus, I feel obligated to do so, after considering what Paul eventually did in 2 Timothy 2:17-18 and 4:14-15 concerning this kind of thing, and even the more that Moses kept a full record of the rebellions in the book of Numbers. I do look to the Lord that He would have mercy on all of us and grant us His sufficient grace that we would endeavor to keep the oneness of His Body at any cost. And I also expect that the brothers who caused the present turmoil and those who are involved in such an illogical and unjustifiable action would reconsider this matter before the Lord to answer this question, which is the question of so many saints who are concerned for the oneness of the Body of Christ: “Is not what you are engaging in divisive, or already a division?” (W. Lee, 1990, p. 74, FPR)

The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion is a distortion of truth instigated by Satan throughout its pages. Deviating from the Path in the Lords Recovery supplies information not given in FPR, bringing truth to light in providing important details of the other side of the story
http://www.TwoTurmoils.com/deviating...dsrecovery.pdf

Even if those denunciations had been true, the rhetoric could be said to be inappropriate and void of love. But our brothers could not even tell the truth in an atmosphere pervaded by the Deceiver, the Accuser of many brothers in church meetings and official publications, especially FPR. The Denunciations given others by Witness Lee actually applied more to those supporting his movement, as well as to him, its orchestrator.

Steve Isitt

[aron]

Originally Posted by Indiana

A Concluding Word in
The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion (FPR)

“Instead of these excellent Christian virtues, what we see in the present rebellion are exaggerated criticisms, cruel backbitings, unreasonable opposings, subtle underminings, wicked defamations, vicious slanders, unethical anonymous letters, bitter attacks, ill-intentioned conspiracies, crafty innuendos, double-tongued pretenses, fabricated falsehood, flagrant lies, reckless devastations, and unbridled destructions, with unimaginable hatred, fleshly jealousies, and unchristian avengings.

Unbelievable. Ill-intentioned conspiracies? So there are well-intentioned conspiracies?

And unreasonable opposings? This is so subjective as to be completely fantastic. Anything WL didn't like or want was automatically deemed as unreasonable opposition. See how easy that is?

Just like in North Korea: if you don't clap loudly enough you get offed. The Big Boss isn't happy.

I remember reading this when I was the hardest of the hard-core. I was like, Whaaaaa...? I mean, his characterizations would make a sailor blush. Talk about a bucket of ice cold water. Talk about quenching the Spirit. I probably never read anything as Spirit-quenching as this book was.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by aron

Unbelievable...

I remember reading this when I was the hardest of the hard-core. I was like, Whaaaaa...? I mean, his characterizations would make a sailor blush. Talk about a bucket of ice cold water. Talk about quenching the Spirit. I probably never read anything as Spirit-quenching as this book was.

I had never seen this little excerpt of Fermentation before. In a single sentence, I count that WL makes 18 different accusations. Was he in some type of fit of rage when he spoke this? That is what it sounds like. That kind of characterization of anyone is unnecessary even if true.

Reckless devastations? Unbridled destructions? Unimaginable hatred? What is any of that even supposed to mean?

As you say, it's just unbelievable that WL would speak that way. I'm sure that when JI wrote his book, he was thoroughly disgusted with WL. Yet he never stooped down to the level of name-calling and throwing out wild accusations.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Indiana

A Book of Distortion

In a concluding word by Witness Lee in The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion(FPR), he says, “Since the dissenting ones have made their rebellion so obvious, so public, even by their publications, I feel obliged to present to you all the fermenting events of the present rebellion in the Lord’s recovery that you may be clear about the intrinsic reasons and causes of all the fermentations. In the church as a corporate Body composed of many different persons with their different realizations and views, problems are sometimes unavoidable in the long run. According to the New Testament, such problems should be properly taken care of in the divine love by genuine and thorough fellowship in the Spirit, with constant forgiveness, all-caring forbearance, self-depreciating humility, merciful sympathy, and gracious help in mutuality”.

“Instead of these excellent Christian virtues, what we see in the present rebellion are exaggerated criticisms, cruel backbitings, unreasonable opposings, subtle underminings, wicked defamations, vicious slanders, unethical anonymous letters, bitter attacks, ill-intentioned conspiracies, crafty innuendos, double-tongued pretenses, fabricated falsehood, flagrant lies, reckless devastations, and unbridled destructions, with unimaginable hatred, fleshly jealousies, and unchristian avengings. These are not the fruit of enjoying Christ, nor are they good for the building up of the saints and the building of the churches.

It had been a few years since I read what Witness Lee had to say in Fermentation. Steve brought out these quotes well. What I have emphasized in bold, Witness Lee is describing his younger coworkers at the time who many are still coworkers of LSM. For the reader that disagrees, I welcome dialog on this forum.
It is evident in the past 25 years there has been no "forgiveness, all-caring forbearance, self-depreciating humility, merciful sympathy, and gracious help in mutuality" to brothers who were vilified and whose subsequent quarantines were sanctioned by local churches. No reaching out to these brothers who are likely in their 80's. Simply no grace and no love expressed.

I can understand why. Local churches exist because of Living Stream Ministry. For all intent and purposes, local churches are a revenue stream for LSM. We saw 10 years ago what happens to churches who are at best neutral towards LSM. When a local church doesn't provide a revenue stream, they are worthless to LSM.
Now with the current blended coworkers, they must do what's best for business even if it isn't the right thing to do. No matter what Lee and sons did to hijack the churches, all that is not up for discussion, swept under the rug, look the other way, and just go on positively. Now what's best for business is maintaining a pristine image of Witness Lee and publish his ministry.

[NewManLiving]

Lets not forget The former LSM manager Phillip Lee. The current management has adopted many of his practices, probably more so than Witness Lee. Recall that being one with the ministry also included being one with Phillip. They did anything he said and covered up everything he did. Today they are no different.

[testallthings]

Originally Posted by awareness

The Bible says we're but worms (somewhere, if you must know, let me know and I'll find it. Or google it.).

•Job 25:6 how much less man, who is a maggot, and the son of man, who is a worm!"
•No amount of intellect or education can grant one immunity where matters of the heart and faith are concerned.
•So watch out! There's a serpent in every paradise!
•"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix
•Heroes fail, when you get to know them ... then they fall, just like the gods of old. Why else quest for the historical Jesus?


Br. awareness, thank you. You made my day.(Did you do that on purpose?)