Questions about Daystar

[Lisbon]

Originally Posted by Donnali

I agree Lisbon. Then should I give a free pass to Max R for all the havoc he wrecked upon the saints, including me? He has never apologized to me. Do you understand the correlation? There is only a tinge of resentment in my being toward Max R and as much as I can "let the Lord" heal me in that area ... well, it takes time, right?

Let me leave you with this thought ... The Almightly God desired and chose sinful but cleansed (through the blood of His son) man to dispense His life into. Not just to dispense, but that we all enter into this long period of transformation until we not only have the image of God outwardly, but also inwardly. It takes a life time.

There is a distinct difference between the outcome of Max and Lee. Max got crucified which I suppose was appropriate, but Lee was made an idol, potentate, whatever. You suggest they were treated similarly. I saw well prepared video on Max but never a word of Lee until I came to this forum. Much dark talk about Rosemede, John Ingals, Bill Freeman, Moses Lake, etc, nothing negative about Bro Lee. Of course Texas was the bastion of BP and RG.

Lisbon

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Lisbon

There is a distinct difference between the outcome of Max and Lee. Max got crucified which I suppose was appropriate, but Lee was made an idol, potentate, whatever. You suggest they were treated similarly. I saw well prepared video on Max but never a word of Lee until I came to this forum. Much dark talk about Rosemede, John Ingals, Bill Freeman, Moses Lake, etc, nothing negative about Bro Lee. Of course Texas was the bastion of BP and RG.

Lisbon

Max did many rotten things to undermine the saints' respect for their local leaderships, sowing discord everywhere, some of whiich I witnessed first hand, but Lee never did confess that Max was merely working and traveling entirely at his behest.

I'm not justifying any of Max's many failures here, but all those who participated in his "Young Galileans move of the Lord," knew that they were ultimately following Lee, and not Max.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Max did many rotten things to undermine the saints' respect for their local leaderships, sowing discord everywhere, some of whiich I witnessed first hand, but Lee never did confess that Max was merely working and traveling entirely at his behest.

I'm not justifying any of Max's many failures here, but all those who participated in his "Young Galileans move of the Lord," knew that they were ultimately following Lee, and not Max.

Max was a sociopath. Lee spotted it and used it. Lee was a sociopath. His lecherous son Philip was much worse. And Timothy Lee was somewhere in the middle. He got Daystar rich, but didn't show it. Witness knew all about it. And did nothing to Max, Philip, or Timothy ... until the damage was done ... if then.

Lee showed his sociopathic traits by attacking all of Christianity. We see this in this quote:

1) "Judaism is Satanic, Catholicism is demonic, and Protestantism is without Christ."- Witness Lee, The Stream Magazine, vol. 14, no. 4 (LSM, Nov 1976) p.

2) And his sociopathy pops out into the open when he was asked about those that lost their money on Daystar. I close with this eye-popping quote:

Testimony of Treasurer - Don Hardy email

"It “started” with DayStar. WL gave the appearance that “everything was o.k.”, that what he wanted to do was “ALL” for the “Lord”; but, underneath (this is a fact, and past history), there were the children to care for, especially Timothy.

I had heard that in the FarEast, WL had tried to do this “business venture thing” at least 2-3 other times. (My mother-in-law did some “research” with missionaries from the Far East, and found out). I BLAME the dear dear Chinese saints in Elden, who were from the FE, because they KNEW better (they knew brother!!), and they not only “not touched it”, they kept QUIET with any of us saints from America about those business ventures, and let us ALL go ahead and “walk down the primrose path!!”

I believe I told you about the Elders’ Mtng later (about 8-10 mos?) after Daystar (WL had already moved to Orange Co., and we had already built the mtng hall, so I may have my timing off): It was a LARGE Mtng (bros. had flown in), and WL was sitting up-front in “the captain’s chair”. John Smith of San Diego, asked him something like this: “WHAT happened with Daystar, WL? Soooo many saints are still suffering. Somehow we have to pay them$$ back” WL’s answer: something like this (I’ll “never” forget): “They have lost their virginity”.

Dick Taylor was very perplexed, and asked: ”Why, WL, what on earth do you mean?!!” “Well bros. when the saints first came into Elden Hall, in the “early days” they were all somewhat pure virgins, WHOLLY for the LORD, seeking the Lord, wanting only the Lord. But over Daystar, so many LOST their virginity, they lost their first love. (They got mixed). Dick (or someone else) said, HOW did that happen WL? WL said, they were (all) SEDUCED, they lost their virginity!” And there were MANY brothers there, but NOT one asked, “WHO did the seducing, WL?” I did not ask publicly, but I asked (and was answered) within me! "Why, the "little precious man" sitting right in front of us, IS THE MAN who seduced us all!!"

-- Emphasis mine --

[Nell]

This is a link to a discussion on an old forum about "Max Rapoport's so-called rebellion" which might give you further insight on Max and attempts to determine exactly WHO Max rebelled against.

http://www.thebereans.net/forum2/sho...t=35391&page=4

LA Times article
https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...7,820767&hl=en

[Donnali]

Dear brothers and sisters and other onlookers,

It has been pointed out to me that my "build a bridge and get over it" was not scriptural. I am sorry for that comment, it was said in
frustration to a certain member that I felt has a vendetta against the LC.

Concerning Daystar-Local Church Discussions I have nothing new to
add to this Forum of discussions. I have presented my first hand
experiences of Daystar, with I hope renders some insight to the actual
motorhome for those that were interested.

Inwardly, the Lord has told me to stop presenting to the Forum, even
though I want to prove that I am not some "hit and run" sister. I have
no intention of wooing anyone back to the LC. My hope, was to present
my experiences as a counter balance to all the negativity I sensed here.

Had I truly understood that the Forum on that discussion began 2008
and that from 2012-2015 there was very little discussions on Daystar. It would have been better that I had not posted anything, than to stir up
the hornet’s nest yet again. Those that think they are “right” will defend
their rightness to their last breath w/o any consideration that there are
two sides to everything we see and that the source of their “rightness”
might not be the Tree of Life.

I leave you with a couple of verses that the Lord gave to me last night.
Eccl 12:13-14 "The end of the matter, when all has been heard, is this:
Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man.
For God will bring every deed to judgment, with every secret thing,
whether good or evil."

And this is the verse that is my hope for us all. 1 John 1:6-7 "If we say
that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie
and are not practicing the truth; but if we walk in the light as He is in
the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus
His Son cleanses us from every sin.


I am more than happy to fellowship with any of my dear brothers and
sisters about their experiences of "practicing the truth" and "walking in
the light". To participate in 2nd hand, 3rd hand, 4th hand information about something that happened 41 years ago, well I just don't have the heart.

Here is my email again: LOL@donnali.com

Please put Daystar in the subject line, I don't want to have to sift

through my spam folder, yet I check it every day.

You sister in Christ,

Donnali

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Donnali

Dear brothers and sisters and other onlookers,

It has been pointed out to me that my "build a bridge and get over it" was not scriptural. I am sorry for that comment, it was said in
frustration to a certain member that I felt has a vendetta against the LC.

Thank you for your apology.

On the other side of the coin, we are quite familiar with the frustration of communicating with LC members we feel have a vendetta with those of us who have nothing more in mind than to tell the truth and hopefuly help others who have been hurt by their experiences in the LC.

...
I have no intention of wooing anyone back to the LC. My hope, was to present
my experiences as a counter balance to all the negativity I sensed here.

"All the negativity", as you call it, is very demeaning to us. Labeling us as "negative" minimizes the suffering of the saints into a single word. This is so wrong. Of course, it didn't begin with you, but hopefully you can reconsider using this and other such terms. Think of us instead as believers for whom Christ died.

What you sense is our frustration with, as I stated above, the Local Church leadership and its refusal to hear us. When you attempt to obey the requirements of Matt. 18, and get to the part about "tell it to the church", the elders ARE the church and have no interest in resolving the conflict.

.. Those that think they are “right” will defend their rightness to their last breath w/o any consideration that there are two sides to everything we see and that the source of their “rightness”
might not be the Tree of Life.

Donnali, this is the way we feel too. There ARE two sides to everything and one of them is being presented on this forum. The LC leadership will likely defend its "rightness" to their last breath and pass unrighteous judgment on us, their brothers.

From a position of power, the Local Church leadership has taken the position of being "right" despite all evidence to the contrary. If the Local Church leadership would communicate with those of us posting on this forum, I doubt this forum would exist. We're here because we, I should say "I'm here" because I feel I have no alternative. Appeals to the LC leadership have been ignored ad infinitim. Another message of this forum is to the scores of people out there who have been hurt: "you are not alone".

Regarding the "Tree of Life", I believe a statement is either true or false, and truth is absolute. The source of truth is God and the source of a lie is the devil. WLee's "tree" teachings only serve to complicate a simple matter.

I leave you with a couple of verses that the Lord gave to me last night.
Eccl 12:13-14 "The end of the matter, when all has been heard, is this:
Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man.
For God will bring every deed to judgment, with every secret thing,
whether good or evil."

And this is the verse that is my hope for us all. 1 John 1:6-7 "If we say
that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie
and are not practicing the truth; but if we walk in the light as He is in
the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus
His Son cleanses us from every sin.

There is indeed little or no fellowship between "us" and "them". If all parties were walking in the light, there would be fellowship. These verses apply to all of us, unless you believe that we alone are in darkness and the LC leadership is in the light. Do you believe this?

We're ready anytime to fellowship. Our requests have been rebuffed and we have been labelled as "negative", as "opposers" and many other things. This is ugly and hurtful. It appears to me that the leadership is hiding while we are hung out to dry. Sorry...that's just what I've come to believe after many, many years of attempting to communicate in the light.

All of this can end whenever the LC Leadership is ready. They can contact us here.

...I am more than happy to fellowship with any of my dear brothers and
sisters about their experiences of "practicing the truth" and "walking in
the light".

There are many, many testimonies of practicing the truth and walking in the light on this forum. Just as we don't have the background with Daystar that you have, we ask that you understand that you don't have the experiences we have had with the Local Church and Witness Lee's teachings.

You've asked us to accept your experiences at Daystar as "truth". I can do that. You have a perspective I don't/didn't have. Please understand that this is a two-way street.

To participate in 2nd hand, 3rd hand, 4th hand information about something that happened 41 years ago, well I just don't have the heart.

Point taken. We are here discussing a topic we don't have a lot of information about. On the other hand, some of us (OBW for example) do have knowledge about Daystar that you may not have. That's why the forum is called "Local Church Discussions".

Again, if the LC leadership would talk to us, we wouldn't be here.

Thanks for stopping by---
Nell

[aron]

Originally Posted by Donnali

I am more than happy to fellowship with any of my dear brothers and sisters about their experiences of "practicing the truth" and "walking in the light". To participate in 2nd hand, 3rd hand, 4th hand information about something that happened 41 years ago, well I just don't have the heart.

I am glad sister Donalli is not reading this, because I don't want to disturb her walk in the light. But someone needs to point out the obvious, that if they had dealt with 1st hand information in the LC, there wouldn't be any need to deal with 2nd hand, 3rd hand, or 4th hand information.

Why do you think we're gleaning 5th hand info about WL's business dealings in the Far East, pre-Daystar? Perhaps because those who knew, kept their mouths shut, and watched the whole thing unfold AGAIN with unsuspecting American "investors"?

And, how many "Congregational Church Discussion Forums" do you see, where anonymous members are posting about Pastor so-and-so? No? Why not? Maybe because in the Congregational Church they come together and discuss things face to face, and resolve them to everyone's satisfaction, what? Like normal, well-adjusted adult human beings. Talk about practicing truth, and walking in light. Keep a short account, people. Don't pretend that your account doesn't exist.

"I'm proud to be an ostrich with my head stuck in the sand". That's the best quote I heard, from one of the Blendeds. It just about sums up the whole business, Daystar and all.

Originally Posted by Terry

The community church in Renton my family and I have been meeting with for roughly 5 years, it's the humility from the pastor that contributes to an attractive atmosphere to meet in.

No palace intrigue in the community church in Renton? How can this be? No rebellions, no storms and turmoils? No whispers of "ambitious brothers" usurping the crown of God's humble Bondslave? What kind of a 'normal' church is that????

Originally Posted by Donnali

If I had had a personal offense with either Brother Lee or his family, or any leading brother I would have gone to that one in person.

And she'd be on the street so fast that her head would spin. There's no mechanism in the LC to deal with offenses. It is all about pretense - pretend they don't exist, and/or "Take the cross". And those whose consciences are bothered, and try to address wrongs directly are expunged from the LC community as "rebels", and then expunged from LC narrative. They pretend that the "negative ones" don't exist.

Originally Posted by The Guess Who

Don't give me no hand me down shoes
Don't give me no hand me down love
Don't give me no hand me down world
I got one already

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Donnali

I am more than happy to fellowship with any of my dear brothers and
sisters about their experiences of "practicing the truth" and "walking in
the light". To participate in 2nd hand, 3rd hand, 4th hand information about something that happened 41 years ago, well I just don't have the heart.

If that's specifically and solely related to Daystar, I can understand. As far as other topics and subjects worthy of discussion, I hope to hear from our sister.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Donnali

Inwardly, the Lord has told me to stop presenting to the Forum, even
though I want to prove that I am not some "hit and run" sister. I have
no intention of wooing anyone back to the LC. My hope, was to present
my experiences as a counter balance to all the negativity I sensed here.

I would double-check that if I were you. LCMers have inward registrations which they attibute to the Lord, but which are often just the reaction of their conditioning, rather than the Holy Spirit.

Again, I suggest most respectfully, pray. Please pray about your life and where the Lord wants you, rather than just going with your first reaction. LCMers take so much based on the words of others. They rarely pray about things.

Just a short story. I often encouragage LCMers to pray about what the Lord really wants and what he is really doing. It's quite odd, but no one has ever replied, "Good idea. I'll do that." But what could be wrong with praying? Do you think you can ever go wrong by praying? But LCMers seem to think if they open the door to praying about the LCM that the Devil will step in or something. Quite odd.

I asked an LCM brother once to pray about whether he should be in the LCM. You know what he said? He said, "I don't need to pray."

That in a nutshell shows you the nature of the situation.