Questions about Daystar

[Intothewind]

Yep. Largest and newest(as of my time there) building at the La Palma area where they host conferences. Apparently the single largest bathroom in the near area(even Disneyland? I suppose), listed as an official earthquake refuge building due to its solid construction.

Many from all over helped-brothers from far away frequently stayed for months on site put up in trailers. I helped out a few times-laying bricks for the parking lot, planting planters, scrubbing down the concrete. Such a strange world we were in. I always had trouble believing that God's purpose boiled down to this strange little plot in Anaheim. Weird weird weird.

I wonder how much they make selling those Chinese banners, calendars, and other paraphernalia? I'm sure Morning revival addiction is a key part. I for one never bought one. Shortly before leaving I remember my Dad making a bigger deal about 10% donation of ones earnings(I had begun working-somehow survived in LB on 1099 and a little less than 10 grand)...I had money to spare but didn't think that giving to God's purpose necessarily meant one particular offering box. It is sad to see saints money so frivolously wasted away.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Intothewind

Shortly before leaving I remember my Dad making a bigger deal about 10% donation of ones earnings(I had begun working-somehow survived in LB on 1099 and a little less than 10 grand)...I had money to spare but didn't think that giving to God's purpose necessarily meant one particular offering box. It is sad to see saints money so frivolously wasted away.

Difference for me between non-LSM affiliated churches and LSM affiliated churches, I have the peace to give when meeting with a non-LSM affiliated church. While meeting with various local churches, I never had the peace to give.
How was the money being used? There's no assurances if I choose to give that the locality would send the money to LSM for another real estate venture, to DCP for the next lawsuit, etc. If I put a disclaimer "not to be used for LSM, DCP, BFA, etc," how will that go over with the brothers counting the giving?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Intothewind

Shortly before leaving I remember my Dad making a bigger deal about 10% donation of ones earnings

I grew up with the 10% of income doctrine. It came natural to me.

Now, after hearing about what Lee said of those that lost their investment in Daystar, that, "They lost their virginity," I can't agree with it anymore. Lee broke me of that habit. Now I look at it like it's more of what took the virginity in the first place ... without a kiss.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by awareness

I grew up with the 10% of income doctrine. It came natural to me.

When elders start pledging to LSM who much their localities can be expected to pledge to a lawsuit, speaking of what's natural....
When I was meeting with the Church in Bellevue, what the lead elder at the time resounds very truthfully; "there's no democracy in the churchlife". When it comes to giving, brothers and sisters are at the mercy how their giving is utilized.
Personally, I would prefer used to help less fortunate households of the congregation than for the next "flow".

[aron]

Originally Posted by Terry

"there's no democracy in the churchlife".

Says who? The Bible? Or the Minister of the Age, the Grand Pooh-Bah? Is this more wisdom from Apostolus Maximus, the Seer of the Age?

I've seen churches that were more democratic, and that functioned better than the LC, with less storms, turmoils, and rebellions. But they aren't 'normal'? According to whose idea of normal? Watchman Nee's absolutist "Hand everything over and get in line" model?

I seem to remember in the counsel in Jerusalem, everybody got to speak (see Acts 15, esp vv 6 & 7). Did everybody get to speak in the LC churchlife? No. Only one trumpet allowed, they said. Pfft. Not normal at all.

Daystar, among other doozies, came out of the "Brother Lee says" model of the churchlife, which Terry referenced above... no democracy, no checks and balances, no reasoning or examining to see if these things are so (Acts 17:11). No testing, and no proving (1 John 4:1, 1 Thess 5:21). Just "be one with our brother" and "even when he's wrong he's right". Again I ask, just how normal is this kind of churchlife?

[HERn]

Originally Posted by awareness

I grew up with the 10% of income doctrine. It came natural to me.

Now, after hearing about what Lee said of those that lost their investment in Daystar, that, "They lost their virginity," I can't agree with it anymore. Lee broke me of that habit. Now I look at it like it's more of what took the virginity in the first place ... without a kiss.

Does anyone have a citation or reference for the "lost their virginity" quote attributed to WL?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by HERn

Does anyone have a citation or reference for the "lost their virginity" quote attributed to WL?

It was from an email written by Don Hardy to Steve Isitt. Hardy was an officer of Daystar, and present in the meeting when this was spoken.

Lee's public comment was in response to a question by Dick Taylor in the aftermath of the Daystar debacle. Dick had in mind all those hurt and disillusioned in the LC's who had invested in the scam.

Lee responded that they had "lost their virginity." Pathetic!

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It was from an email written by Don Hardy to Steve Isitt. Hardy was an officer of Daystar, and present in the meeting when this was spoken.

Lee's public comment was in response to a question by Dick Taylor in the aftermath of the Daystar debacle. Dick had in mind all those hurt and disillusioned in the LC's who had invested in the scam.

Lee responded that they had "lost their virginity." Pathetic!

Not a quote you'd want attributed to the Minister of the Age. He could have easily said, I never forced anyone to invest.

On another note in light of concerns Dick has had then and in the late 80's, he's managed to remain absolute for the ministry.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Terry

Not a quote you'd want attributed to the Minister of the Age. He could have easily said, I never forced anyone to invest.

On another note in light of concerns Dick has had then and in the late 80's, he's managed to remain absolute for the ministry.

The "they lost their virginity" statement reveals that from Daystar the Lee family was laughing all the way to the bank ... and laughing at the investors into Daystar as fools ... that they Bill-Cosbyed.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It was from an email written by Don Hardy to Steve Isitt. Hardy was an officer of Daystar, and present in the meeting when this was spoken.

I thought I remembered there being a similar statement in the phone conversation with Sal B. Maybe I have just merged the two over time.

[aron]

Originally Posted by OBW

I thought I remembered there being a similar statement in the phone conversation with Sal B. Maybe I have just merged the two over time.

I also thought I remembered that it was said on the phone with Sal B in Boston.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It was from an email written by Don Hardy to Steve Isitt. Hardy was an officer of Daystar, and present in the meeting when this was spoken.

Lee's public comment was in response to a question by Dick Taylor in the aftermath of the Daystar debacle. Dick had in mind all those hurt and disillusioned in the LC's who had invested in the scam.

Lee responded that they had "lost their virginity." Pathetic!

Sorry, the question was not asked by DT, but by John Smith of San Diego.

Here is the quote ...

Don Hardy to Steve Isitt: Some time after DayStar failure, we had a "BIG" elders gathering: and John Smith from San Diego asked WL a question: "Brother Lee, HOW could sooooo many saints fall into soooo much pain and trouble, since DayStar? So many have never been restored! And frankly, I don’t know how to help them" (And Steve, other bros there also "amen'd" and groaned along with John's question). Here's what Witness Lee answered: "Brothers when the saints FIRST came into "the recovery" they were "VIRGINS" BUT, MANY of them have now LOST their virginity!"

John was AGAST!! "Why, Brother Lee, WHAT do you mean, lost their virginity?" WL: "Well Brother, THEY allowed themselves to be SEDUCED away from their purity and singleness with Christ alone." WOW Steve! NOT ONE Brother caught what WL was saying; but I (yes, I) DID! Not one of them realized (Steve -- this is how much darkness most were in, and still are....); not one realized: "Why, the "little precious man" sitting right in front of us, IS THE MAN who seduced us all!!"

But at that moment for once, I LISTENED to the Holy Spirit and God's Light, realizing: "THIS is the man!" I was so sad. I STILL LOVED Brother Lee, and prayed much for him; BUT my eyes were further opened to the MIXTURE we were all involved in. So, in Los Angeles, and then Rosemead, we began to "separate" ourselves, unto the LORD ALONE. We still received TRUTH; but never again, just gullibly accepted "everything." THIS turn has saved the saints in Rosemead, even up to today.

[Freedom]

It's just sheer arrogance that Lee could say that the saints had "lost their virginity" and were "seduced", but not flat out admit that he was the one who had been seducing everyone. He knew he had made a big mistake, and he also knew that he would never have to fully answer to his actions.