Questions about Daystar

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Freedom

The following link has photos of the interior of a Daystar mothorhome:
http://www.dodgetravcos.com/index.ph...-Dodge-Daystar

It looks well-appointed, but worth $70k? Not a chance. No wonder these things didn't sell. I'm sure $70k was a lot more back then too.

A 14,000 pound kludge ...

It more than implies delusion ... like all the rest of Lee and Nee's teachings and movement; one massive delusion ...

The teachings are the hair around the hook.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by awareness

A 14,000 pound kludge ...

It more than implies delusion ... like all the rest of Lee and Nee's teachings and movement; one massive delusion ...

The teachings are the hair around the hook.

Just looking at the pictures of the Daystar motorhomes, it seems to resemble the figment of someone's own imagination rather than being a practical motorhome that would sell. I realize it may have been all W.E. Miller's design, but Lee was someone who invested in the business, thinking it could sell, so he was just as far removed from reality. It really was all one big delusion, a delusion of epic proportions.

What it really comes down to is the environment of the LC was the catalyst for a endeavor such as Daystar. Lee's LC world was one in which he answered to no one, where no one dared to question him or give him constructive feedback. He never had to deal with the consequences of his actions.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Just looking at the pictures of the Daystar motorhomes, it seems to resemble the figment of someone's own imagination rather than being a practical motorhome that would sell. I realize it may have been all W.E. Miller's design, but Lee was someone who invested in the business, thinking it could sell, so he was just as far removed from reality. It really was all one big delusion, a delusion of epic proportions.

What it really comes down to is the environment of the LC was the catalyst for a endeavor such as Daystar. Lee's LC world was one in which he answered to no one, where no one dared to question him or give him constructive feedback. He never had to deal with the consequences of his actions.

He obviously had delusions of grandeur ... and what he produced was a Bible based delusions.

Run as far away as possible as fast as possible away from it all. And dump that delusion out of your head. Dump it from your history, just like Daystar.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

What it really comes down to is the environment of the LC was the catalyst for a endeavor such as Daystar. Lee's LC world was one in which he answered to no one, where no one dared to question him or give him constructive feedback. He never had to deal with the consequences of his actions.

When I think of Daystar, I think of the Harvest House lawsuit. They were based off the financial donation of brothers and sisters.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

When I think of Daystar, I think of the Harvest House lawsuit. They were based off the financial donation of brothers and sisters.

The environment of the LC gives rise to all kinds of bad judgements and decisions. The LC has continued in the same trajectory to this day. Harvest House was just as bad as Daystar, if not worse. If I was someone who had donated to that lawsuit, I probably would have demanded an explanation for where my money went. It was a huge waste.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

The environment of the LC gives rise to all kinds of bad judgements and decisions. The LC has continued in the same trajectory to this day. Harvest House was just as bad as Daystar, if not worse. If I was someone who had donated to that lawsuit, I probably would have demanded an explanation for where my money went. It was a huge waste.

The result as always is no accountability.
As I understand the protocol from time of the lawsuit would be an elder or deacon giving an announcement for saints to give specifically to the lawsuit. What is not known and can be considered hearsay is elders would pledge how much their locality can give towards the lawsuit.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Terry

The result as always is no accountability.
As I understand the protocol from time of the lawsuit would be an elder or deacon giving an announcement for saints to give specifically to the lawsuit. What is not known and can be considered hearsay is elders would pledge how much their locality can give towards the lawsuit.

Lee and now the BBs believe that sheep need to be fleeced from time to time. In fact many Christian leaders believe that. Christians can be so gullible. They only go bleep, and go beep beep, while getting fleeced.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

The result as always is no accountability.
As I understand the protocol from time of the lawsuit would be an elder or deacon giving an announcement for saints to give specifically to the lawsuit. What is not known and can be considered hearsay is elders would pledge how much their locality can give towards the lawsuit.

I believe that LSM DCP simply levied a "taxation" upon each member LC loosely based on membership of the phone list.

I rember several "discussions" i had with one particular elder of mine. He always tended to inflate church attendance as a kind of self promotion. I, however, would tend to discount church attendance, knowing the consequences of "taxation without representation."

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Terry

When I think of Daystar, I think of the Harvest House lawsuit. They were based off the financial donation of brothers and sisters.

The last time I checked LSM was sitting on about $13 million in cash easily seen by anyone looking. Do you know the purpose of this large stash of cash? It ain't to feed the poor, clothe the naked, care for widows...I think it's for a message to anyone or any group that dares to challenge LSM letting them know that they have the resources to "sue 'em till the cows come home". I don't know for sure, but I imagine that a legitimate non-profit would be putting their resources where the needs were.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by HERn

The last time I checked LSM was sitting on about $13 million in cash easily seen by anyone looking. Do you know the purpose of this large stash of cash? It ain't to feed the poor, clothe the naked, care for widows...I think it's for a message to anyone or any group that dares to challenge LSM letting them know that they have the resources to "sue 'em till the cows come home". I don't know for sure, but I imagine that a legitimate non-profit would be putting their resources where the needs were.

Yes, they can outspend many others. But they have to remember that the last lawsuit — and almost the only one to actually get a complete hearing — they lost.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by OBW

Yes, they can outspend many others. But they have to remember that the last lawsuit — and almost the only one to actually get a complete hearing — they lost.

Does anyone have an estimate on how much LSM spent on their failed lawsuit that went to the Supreme Court?

[HERn]

Not sure if these are the only employees, but those they list are all relatives of one of the directors of LSM.


TIMOTHY GRAVER CHILDOFOFFICER 50,669.W-2WAGES
AMY GRAVER CHILDOFOFFICER 28,640.W2WAGES
THEODOREHAGE INLAWOFOFFICER 90,226.W2WAGES
NICOLEDUSSELJEE CHILDOFOFFICER 22,533.W-2WAGES
JOSEPH PRIM INLAW OF OFFICER 60,135.W-2 WAGES

Here's the link to the originating document.

http://pdfs.citizenaudit.org/2015_01...990_201312.pdf

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by HERn

Does anyone have an estimate on how much LSM spent on their failed lawsuit that went to the Supreme Court?

The amount i remember was approx 13.7 million.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Just looking at the pictures of the Daystar motorhomes, it seems to resemble the figment of someone's own imagination rather than being a practical motorhome that would sell. I realize it may have been all W.E. Miller's design, but Lee was someone who invested in the business, thinking it could sell, so he was just as far removed from reality. It really was all one big delusion, a delusion of epic proportions.

The early 70s was an era of grandiose in motorhomes. If it had not been for the oil embargo running the price of gasoline up so quickly, they might have sold a bunch of them. In that respect, I cannot say that the venture was simply doomed. But one of the serious risks came true in spades.

I saw one of them arrive in Dallas from Anaheim. It was really nice. Of course the motor dieseled right there in the driveway when the engine was turned off. Problem of older-style V-8s with the wrong gas.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by OBW

The early 70s was an era of grandiose in motorhomes. If it had not been for the oil embargo running the price of gasoline up so quickly, they might have sold a bunch of them. In that respect, I cannot say that the venture was simply doomed. But one of the serious risks came true in spades.

I saw one of them arrive in Dallas from Anaheim. It was really nice. Of course the motor dieseled right there in the driveway when the engine was turned off. Problem of older-style V-8s with the wrong gas.

The one in the pictures had brass fixtures. Didn't they make one with real gold plated fixtures. At least that is what I was told. It may have just been in the pitch to gain more investment from the saints. In fact, as I heard it, there was no motor home that could come close to the Daystar Motor Home. And it was going to be a smashing sure-thing success. But I do think that was a scripted pitch, for money. Sort of like the pitch I keep getting from Hank Hanegraaff, of Christian Research Institute (We Were Wrong fame).

Lee is not the only one that believed that sheep had to be fleeced. Hank keeps his sheep-shears sharp at all times. I don't know who is worse ; Christians that take other Christians, or, Christian who allow themselves to be taken. Both shame Jesus ... and make being born again unattractive.

How come the most Christian nation on the earth is the most materialistic? Is that the way the sermon on the mount says to be? Who, really, lives the Bible?

And by the way. The 440 was a great engine, but the Daystar, because of its weight, should have been made with a diesel engine. That's just more evidence that the Daystar business was a delusion on Lee's part.

Lee was delusional. We can see that now. For that reason everything about Lee should be questioned and rejected. But depending on the level of investment, which is usually 'all in,' getting the Lee delusion out once in is almost impossible. I'm still digging out pieces of it after decades.

For this reason I'm deeply moved for those that are leaving the LC today. Leaving is not as easy as just walking away. There's years of recovery to go thru. We need to recover from the Recovery.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by OBW

The early 70s was an era of grandiose in motorhomes. If it had not been for the oil embargo running the price of gasoline up so quickly, they might have sold a bunch of them. In that respect, I cannot say that the venture was simply doomed. But one of the serious risks came true in spades.

I saw one of them arrive in Dallas from Anaheim. It was really nice. Of course the motor dieseled right there in the driveway when the engine was turned off. Problem of older-style V-8s with the wrong gas.

The reason the oil crisis happened is because it was the “Lord's doing”... At least this is what Philip Lin tells us: "Unfortunately (Note: Rather, I would say that it must be of the Lord’s doing), because of the energy crisis in the United States, those large size automobiles like the motor home, which consume a huge amount of gasoline, were hard to sell. Seeing the adverse situation in the motor home business due to the energy crisis, Brother Lee immediately decided to stop manufacturing and close the factory..."

Just considering the logic people like Lin employ shows a lot of what the real problem is. There’s the lack of common sense. These men were living in lala land. It sounds to me like they consider the whole Daystar failure to have just been the Lord supposedly redirecting them to do something else. The oil crisis was blamed, but I think there were other risk factors involved. The oil crisis was out of their control, but did they act wisely with respect to what they could control (price point, size/weight, offering multiple models, etc.)?

I googled to see how many motorhome businesses failed as a result of the oil crisis, and the number I saw was something like 40%, so I will admit they could have possible survived. I’m just not all that convinced people wanted something that grandiose. IMO the price point was a big risk factor. That was their only model, and they had the job of convincing people to drop $70k (something like $310k in today’s dollars). I doubt that was an easy task even when gas was cheap. When gas got expensive, then it became impossible.

All in all, Lee’s mindset was to “plunder Egypt”, so I don’t think the means by which he wanted to that was as important to him as the end result he wanted. Daystar was just a means to an end for Lee, and that’s why I think it failed. He thought the Lord would bless his endeavor. When that didn’t happen he was faced with the issue of the oil crisis, but also a business that wasn’t robust enough to survive (as some businesses did). In Lee’s mind, nothing could go wrong. He was the MOTA. He knew best.