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[OBW]

Originally Posted by seeking1

Jehovah's Witness, Mormon's, Getfakys (or whatever the heck) Assembly, countless brands of independent protestant churches, and yes, the Catholic Church. You cannot be serious? I mean, sheesh, this stuff is going on all over the place! Ambitious men building ministries, wanting the preeminence. Drive around Cleveland, OH and you'll see "XYZ" Church meeting in a: storefront, old catholic church, old protestant church, and the leader will straight up tell that this is their show, and their the sheriff in those parts. Sure, it's all good while your on the fringes, but you start coming regularly and you better get on board or else be ostracized. One church in a storefront that I visited, I thought that I was attending a bible study but it turned out to be a 90 minute ranting and raving session for the "pastor", it was actually longer but I got up and left after 90 minutes. I think that the "pastor" felt insulted that I was leaving because when I was walking out he let out a very cold and sarcastic "thanks for coming brother".

So, like I said, I agree that the there is a some serious abuse of authority going on in the LC's but we will have to agree to disagree on exactly where on the "Abuse of Authority Spectrum" witness lee falls.

If we are going to talk about abuse of authority, you have to go back to Jim Jones, David Koresh and several other really "out there" authoritarians. Not all of them are observed as so much, but they get their followers to do some really messed-up things.

And Westboro Baptist Church. But you can't point at the Baptists over it.

You mostly bring out the marginal to even questionably Christian, plus the RCC. And with the RCC, at some level they ask for the problem by thinking that inviting so many to fight their nature and then be put into positions with children or the opposite sex where they can be tempted so thoroughly. But even here, what you have is individual abuse of power, not wholesale abuse as a general pattern that is systemic.

Ambitious men will always do whatever they can to build their esteem and empire. Some will use religion. Hard to throw the Mormons in since there is such serious question as to whether they should be included within Christianity at all. And the JWs don't really accept Christ as God, so why do you want to include them. Besides, other than being quite different, what is the abuse? I haven't read anything systemic about them.

As for the RCC, it seems that the real authority thought they could nip the problem in the bud without exposing people. Do with the errant priests like they do with their parishioners. Send them to the confessionals, say a few Hail Mary's and sin no more. Let them know they were being watched. Send them to a new environment to start over. Make those affected happier by being rid of the problem. And to some extent they learned their lessons.

But even in the RCC, it is not as if the good priest was rare. Rather that the bad ones made the news.

Are you not seeing the whole of Christianity? Are you presuming that an independent assembly is simply a one-man show? Are you focused on what makes the news and nothing else? I know Cleveland is not like the Bible belt, but there are many churches. Pointing to a few is not an indictment on Christianity, but on those who fail (or fleece) those flocks.

Bernie Madoff was an investment advisor that stole millions (billions?). He was not the only swindler in the investment business. But does that make every Merrill Lynch office a bunch of thieves?