The Gospel Versus "God's Economy"

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by InOmnibusCaritas

Please show what else Witness Lee taught as necessary to salvation from hell other than faith in Jesus Christ? I want quotes, books, etc. Not caricatures or secondary issues.

Originally Posted by InOmnibusCaritas

Lee bewitched you into believing that there are other criteria to being saved other than placing faith in Jesus Christ who was crucified for our sins?

In the book of Galatians, Paul used the phrase "different gospel" (Gal 1.6) in relation to Judaizers who made a show of the gentile converts by insisting that they be circumcised, celebrate the Jewish holidays, etc. which brought them under the bondage of the law. To the Corinthians, Paul spoke of "another Jesus, whom he did not preach," (II Cor 11.4)

Before we categorically apply this same judgment used by Paul on the LC's, i.e. "let them be accursed" (Gal 1.8-9), can we please provide some definitive evidence, as InOmnibusCaritas has requested, supporting your case? No doubt, Lee and LSM had issues, but this claim was never one of them.

One verse which we have not discussed much on this forum, and which may have significance, is Paul's word in II Cor 11.13, "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transfiguring themselves into apostles of Christ."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In the book of Galatians, Paul used the phrase "different gospel" (Gal 1.6) in relation to Judaizers who made a show of the gentile converts by insisting that they be circumcised, celebrate the Jewish holidays, etc. which brought them under the bondage of the law. To the Corinthians, Paul spoke of "another Jesus, whom he did not preach," (II Cor 11.4)

Before we categorically apply this same judgment used by Paul on the LC's, i.e. "let them be accursed" (Gal 1.8-9), can we please provide some definitive evidence, as InOmnibusCaritas has requested, supporting your case? No doubt, Lee and LSM had issues, but this claim was never one of them.

One verse which we have not discussed much on this forum, and which may have significance, is Paul's word in II Cor 11.13, "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transfiguring themselves into apostles of Christ."

These verses in II Corinthians Chapter 11 have me rethinking the our "query" into what Lee preached and who Lee was. The sections in red are troublesomely representative of Lee ...

1 Would that ye could bear with me in a little foolishness: but indeed ye do bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy: for I espoused you to one husband, that I might present you as a pure virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve in his craftiness, your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity and the purity that is toward Christ.
4 For if he that comes preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or if ye receive a different spirit, which ye did not receive, or a different gospel, which ye did not accept, ye do well to bear with him.
5 For I reckon that I am not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
6 But though I be rude in speech, yet am I not in knowledge; nay, in every way have we made this manifest unto you in all things.
7 Or did I commit a sin in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I preached to you the gospel of God for nought?
8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them that I might minister unto you;
9 and when I was present with you and was in want, I was not a burden on any man; for the brethren, when they came from Macedonia, supplied the measure of my want; and in everything I kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.
10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this glorying in the regions of Achaia.
11 Wherefore? because I love you not? God knows.
12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting.
13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for even Satan fashioned himself into an angel of light.
15 It is no great thing therefore if his ministers also fashion themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.
16 I say again, let no man think me foolish; but if ye do, yet as foolish receive me, that I also may glory a little.
17 That which I speak, I speak not after the Lord, but as in foolishness, in this confidence of glorying.
18 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also.
19 For ye bear with the foolish gladly, being wise yourselves .
20 For you bear with a man, though he brings you into bondage, if he devours you, if he takes you captive , if he exalts himself, if he smites you on the face.

What is so troublesome here is Lee's obsession to be elevated to the status of apostle on par with Paul, yet has brought us into bondage, and has smitten many a brother in the process.

[InOmnibusCaritas]

Originally Posted by Ohio

These verses in II Corinthians Chapter 11 have me rethinking the our "query" into what Lee preached and who Lee was. The sections in red are troublesomely representative of Lee ...

[2 Cor. 11:1-20]

What is so troublesome here is Lee's obsession to be elevated to the status of apostle on par with Paul, yet has brought us into bondage, and has smitten many a brother in the process.

All the words in red that you ascribe to Lee is predicated on verse 4, "For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough."

The words in red are only applicable (false apostle, serpent, etc) if indeed Lee actually preached another Jesus or a different gospel. So unless you have already concluded that Lee preached a false gospel, you cannot so readily apply those verses to him.

I am not a Lee apologist so I'm open to examine his presentation of the gospel. I am prepared to pronounce anathema on Lee when there is evidence that he preached a different gospel (and held on too -- we all have our off moments) than the apostolic one. Until then, I will continue to see him and LSM as brothers in Christ whom I will break bread with (if they will break bread with me - I doubt it) and fully expect to enjoy their company in the new heavens and new earth.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by InOmnibusCaritas

All the words in red that you ascribe to Lee is predicated on verse 4, "For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough."

The words in red are only applicable (false apostle, serpent, etc) if indeed Lee actually preached another Jesus or a different gospel. So unless you have already concluded that Lee preached a false gospel, you cannot so readily apply those verses to him.

I am not a Lee apologist so I'm open to examine his presentation of the gospel. I am prepared to pronounce anathema on Lee when there is evidence that he preached a different gospel (and held on too -- we all have our off moments) than the apostolic one. Until then, I will continue to see him and LSM as brothers in Christ whom I will break bread with (if they will break bread with me - I doubt it) and fully expect to enjoy their company in the new heavens and new earth.

I am looking into what you term "predicated" in your post. If that is true, then I agree with you. But if Lee's self-exaltation also contributed, then I am willing to reconsider my views, though I (and now you) have been in the minority here for a long time.

[InOmnibusCaritas]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I am looking into what you term "predicated" in your post. If that is true, then I agree with you. But if Lee's self-exaltation also contributed, then I am willing to reconsider my views, though I (and now you) have been in the minority here for a long time.

Anytime you think of yourself as God's deputy or anything like that, you're in big, big trouble. So, yes, I agree with you. But this thread is whether Lee preached a different gospel. My answer to that is no. The burden of proof is on those who argues for the affirmative.