Prayers

[OBW]

Originally Posted by InOmnibusCaritas

OBW, you are now anglican/episcopalian?

Nowhere close. Bible church but with some appreciation for aspects of liturgical forms of worship.

I believe that Christian worship is more correctly less gospel message and more preparation of the family. It needs more focus on God and who he is and less on us and our needs other than our continued need for repentance. (A good Kyrie without the Latin/Greek would be a plus to me.) In some ways very different from what I sit through every week. But those are not the drivers. I still am closer theologically with my current location(s) and would rather see forms change around that than chase a form and find myself theologically a fish out of water. I prefer open communion though a more contemplative time for it is better than the typical. While we can argue that the LCM did communion fairly well, it was really two different kinds of meeting wrapped together. Not bad but too controlled.

Funny that I like more modern worship style, but find a lot of its content too "me" oriented. There are plenty of ways to have modern worship with hymns (without simply supplying a new tune) and plenty of more truly God songs in modern music. But too often there is a propensity to focus on "me" and what I get out of it in worship.

I want a church that is involved in the community it finds itself in. My previous church was better at that than the current, but they are not uninvolved and there is movement in that direction.

Our needs are not unimportant. But in other settings surrounding the main worship there is place for that.

Last, I feel that the propensity for ad-libbed prayers is not always a plus. It is doubtful that the Psalms were simply penned freeform with no editing. They too often fit a meter of Hebrew poetry. And there is less clichéd praying when it is considered rather than just boot-strapped.

So these prayers from the BCP or similar sources are quite appreciated. Don't worry about the tradition they might come from, but rather the content.

[aron]

Originally Posted by OBW

I feel that the propensity for ad-libbed prayers is not always a plus. It is doubtful that the Psalms were simply penned freeform with no editing. They too often fit a meter of Hebrew poetry. And there is less clichéd praying when it is considered rather than just boot-strapped.

Like Mary's "Magnificat"; it was the prayer of a people and a nation.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by aron

Like Mary's "Magnificat"; it was the prayer of a people and a nation.

Declarations like Mary's Magnificat are problematic relative to what I said. They are given as having been spoken without time to contemplate or rehearse. I am willing to grant that it could have been spoken on the fly since God can put words in our mouths. I am also willing to accept that what is recorded is a somewhat edited version (whether by Mary, Luke, or whoever was/were the source(s) of Luke's account). Still, unless entirely fabricated, I believe that the gist of it was Mary's utterance in a state of being somewhat overwhelmed by it all.

[aron]

Originally Posted by OBW

Declarations like Mary's Magnificat are problematic relative to what I said. They are given as having been spoken without time to contemplate or rehearse. I am willing to grant that it could have been spoken on the fly since God can put words in our mouths. I am also willing to accept that what is recorded is a somewhat edited version (whether by Mary, Luke, or whoever was/were the source(s) of Luke's account). Still, unless entirely fabricated, I believe that the gist of it was Mary's utterance in a state of being somewhat overwhelmed by it all.

There is probably a lot of good commentary on Mary's prayer, but I'm uninformed of it. I simply shared my subjective impression. Probably that impression was historically-lensed: today it looks like a liturgical prayer. But at the moment of utterance it may have been anything but.

A couple of thoughts come to mind, though: first is that when it was written down by Luke it may have become somewhat formalized/ritualized. Just guessing. No way I can know (though, like I said, there may be literature out there on this). Also, it was the prayer of a person who was steeped in the liturgies of a people and a nation. Look at Psalm 147:19,20 "He has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel. He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws. Praise the Lord." (NIV) So it might be expected that a person would open their mouths and utter mysteries from of old, written down by the ancients. When you open your mouth, it should be apparent whether or not you know his laws. The claim of the Jews was that this was their allotment.

A friend and I were talking about Mary, and he mentioned that if anyone should have argued with the angel Gabriel about the revelation sent from God, it was Mary, and not Zechariah. Zechariah and Elizabeth were advanced in years. But Mary was without husband, and the penalty for unmarried sex was severe. Yet she bowed to the will of God.

[OBW]

Odd that after InOmnibusCaritas' question yesterday, I came across this today without looking for it. It is from a blog I have never read before by someone who leads the music portion of worship in a church.

So how do we balance speaking/praying as the Spirit prompts us in the moment and being prepared?

Ten years ago I would have stood on my soapbox with a megaphone and declared that no prayers or verbals should be thought out ahead of time — and certainly not practiced. I believed talking parts were to be solely Spirit-led in the moment, not written out, practiced, and memorized like a script. I used to feel very strongly and categorized any memorizing of verbals as inauthentic.

The only problem is, deep down I knew this was a weak spot in my leading. We would finish a song, and I’d feel prompted to pray. But with the pressure of praying into the microphone, I would get scared and begin speaking in Christian lingo. “God we just love your presence. Thank you for being here. You are worthy of all our praise, etc.”

I would fumble and circle my words round and round. Now that I think about it, that wasn’t very honoring to the experience or the congregants. I wasn’t stewarding my leadership role very well.

Our present pastor does what is often referred to as the "Pastoral Prayer" every Sunday. It is a combination of set form and freedom. Yet even where he gives himself liberty in words, he has an outline of what he is covering, not just a open time to get lost in religious clichés without consideration. I appreciate that it is meaningful in its entirety. Even the parts that you know are coming almost verbatim every week. He has given it thought and prayer and if he feels it should be changed, he will. And it won't leave you wondering whether he got lost for a moment.

Much like the prayers that we read in the Bible. Each one is meaningful to its purpose, not just a sudden outburst of religious platitudes.

[OBW]

Keep, O Lord, Your household the Church in your steadfast faith and love,

That through your grace we may proclaim your truth with boldness,
And minister your justice with compassion;

For the sake of our Savior Jesus Christ,

Who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit,
One God, now and for ever.

Amen.

[OBW]

I started this thread, then let it languish. Today I read a great prayer that was given yesterday at a Reformed church in East Lansing Michigan (slightly revised from the spoken prayer). The original is here.

- - - -

O Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth.

We praise you – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit – for your works of creation, election, redemption, and regeneration. We rejoice that even now your name is being praised by believers in China, by brothers in India, by sisters in Guatemala, by saints in Sudan, South Africa, Germany, Dubai, and Iran. All across this country and all around the world – may Jesus Christ be praised.

We thank you for bringing together in your worldwide church men and women and children from every tongue and tribe and language and nation. Through the precious blood of Christ you have called those were far off and have brought them near – not only near to you, but near to each other.

We pray for racial reconciliation in our nation and in our churches. We thank you for all you have done to sustain our African American brothers and sisters through centuries of suffering and mistreatment. Thank you for the opportunity we have in the body of Christ to worship with those who are unlike us in culture, temperament, and background, but like us in faith. Grant that we may be united in truth and abounding in steadfast love.

We pray for those who have been given great blessing and privilege in this life – for all those who enjoy advantages of family, of wealth, of education, and of opportunity. We know that to whom much is given, much is required. May those who fit this description be especially eager to listen and learn from those whose experience may be far different.

Bring healing to this land, O Lord, for the stain and sin that is our history of racial prejudice. We lament the racial bigotry that has taken place in our nation’s past and continues to exist in the present. If ever we have been a part of this sin, have perpetuated this sin, or have turned a blind eye to this sin, we repent and ask for your mercy.

Dear Lord, remove the unhealthy suspicion that so easily creeps into the human heart. Guard us – all of us, of every skin color – against self-justification, against self-righteousness, against a lack of care and compassion for others. Turn away the schemes of the Devil – that fiendish serpent who loves to pull apart those whom Christ has joined together. In the midst of all our differences – of outlook and experience and political inclinations – may we never forget all that we have in common as descendants of the same Adam, as children of the same Fall, and as sinners redeemed by the same Christ.

Give us joy as members of the same family, with Christ our Brother, you our heavenly Father, and the Holy Spirit as our inheritance and bond.

Give us a sweet sense of fellowship in this church. Help us not only to be friendly, but to make friends, especially with those who may not think or look just like us.

Give us forgiveness where we have failed you and patience for those who have failed us.

Give us grace to bear all things, believe all things, hope all things, and endure all things.

We pray all of this in the name of the one who is Lord over all and the Savior for all – Jesus Christ the Righteous, Amen.