A little background

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Dave

They like to think of themselves as a continuation of the revelations of the Plymouth Brethren among others but they have gone far beyond anything the Brethren and others have taught in teaching and practices.

Have you ever studied the lineage of Exclusive Brethren (aka Peebs) which claim direct to be direct descendents of J. N. Darby?

Methinks you ought to look into them before you make such a statement. They have a hundred year head start to the LCM in aberrant teachings and practices.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Have you ever studied the lineage of Exclusive Brethren (aka Peebs) which claim direct to be direct descendents of J. N. Darby?

Methinks you ought to look into them before you make such a statement. They have a hundred year head start to the LCM in aberrant teachings and practices.

I realize there are many types of Brethren which I have studied to include the Open, Plymouth, Exclusive, Church of the Brethren, Bogomil Brethren, Moravian Brethren, Schwarzenau Brethren, Brethren of the Free Spirit etc I stand by my statement.

[Cal]

Dave, we've had the "cult" discussion here several times. It's one of those things everyone has an opinion about and it seems each one is valid.

For the record I think the LCM fits some of the definitions of a cult. But some think the term is so inflammatory that it is counter-productive. Sort of like calling a gay a "pervert." It seems to end discussions rather than start them.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Dave, we've had the "cult" discussion here several times. It's one of those things everyone has an opinion about and it seems each one is valid.

For the record I think the LCM fits some of the definitions of a cult. But some think the term is so inflammatory that it is counter-productive. Sort of like calling a gay a "pervert." It seems to end discussions rather than start them.

Igzy, I am sure you are correct as to how the term may be viewed. I was actually going off of UntoHim's post on #24 although he does not use the term "cult" but "another gospel". Of course boughtbyJesus also described circumstances in meetings where they were trying to force her to speak where the LC was showing cult-like practices. Their practices are worse than I thought. Like you said, we all have our opinion about the term.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Dave

Igzy, I am sure you are correct as to how the term may be viewed. I was actually going off of UntoHim's post on #24 although he does not use the term "cult" but "another gospel". Of course boughtbyJesus also described circumstances in meetings where they were trying to force her to speak where the LC was showing cult-like practices. Their practices are worse than I thought. Like you said, we all have our opinion about the term.

True we all have our opinion. By definition, cult can be very broad. That's why I believe many are uncomfortable touching the topic. However, to say the LC are sectarian is more palatable. It's transparent to see sectarian practices, attitudes, and behaviors in the LC/LSM ministry churches.
As for the phrase "another gospel", it's clear to say in the LC, they don't like to speak the gospel for the sake of bringing a man, woman, or child to salvation. If bringing someone to salvation doesn't issue into seeing the vision of the ministry LSM publishes, it's considered a waste of time.
Some may say bringing someone to salvation for the sake of adding to the Body of Christ is considered the "low gospel".

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Terry

If bringing someone to salvation doesn't issue into seeing the vision of the ministry LSM publishes, ...

Don't you mean "fall under their spell?" That's just one characteristic that make them a cult ; the falling under their spell ... or the bewitching of "the vision." Like what Paul asked of the Galatians (3:1) "Who has bewitched you?"

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Terry

True we all have our opinion. By definition, cult can be very broad. That's why I believe many are uncomfortable touching the topic. However, to say the LC are sectarian is more palatable. It's transparent to see sectarian practices, attitudes, and behaviors in the LC/LSM ministry churches.
As for the phrase "another gospel", it's clear to say in the LC, they don't like to speak the gospel for the sake of bringing a man, woman, or child to salvation. If bringing someone to salvation doesn't issue into seeing the vision of the ministry LSM publishes, it's considered a waste of time.
Some may say bringing someone to salvation for the sake of adding to the Body of Christ is considered the "low gospel".

I agree with what you are saying but isn't it a given they are sectarian. That is interesting about how the LC considers the necessity of accepting the vision of the ministry that LSM publishes or it is a waste of time trying to bring someone to Christ for salvation. They are more than just sectarian so we could use one of the definitions of a cult as a description: a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person (WL) and thing (LSM literature).

In any case, as I noted earlier, boughtbyJesus indicated her direct experience with the elders in the LC and it appeared unusual and controlling however you want to identify it. She was an outsider providing her first impressions and they weren't good. Hope she is doing well.

[boughtbyJesus]

Originally Posted by Dave

I agree with what you are saying but isn't it a given they are sectarian. That is interesting about how the LC considers the necessity of accepting the vision of the ministry that LSM publishes or it is a waste of time trying to bring someone to Christ for salvation. They are more than just sectarian so we could use one of the definitions of a cult as a description: a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person (WL) and thing (LSM literature).

In any case, as I noted earlier, boughtbyJesus indicated her direct experience with the elders in the LC and it appeared unusual and controlling however you want to identify it. She was an outsider providing her first impressions and they weren't good. Hope she is doing well.

As I have stated earlier, I am a fairly new believer, but my first impression and belief now after being exposed to some of their claims/assertions of this ministry and their churches is that they are a cult. I do not wish to offend anyone or to make inflammatory remarks, but this was/is my feeling. My recollection is that they believe they are special, chosen group of people, through WL, whom they say was chosen by God to be the oracle if this age, to whom He was revealing lost truths and the proper way of the church. I never for one second believed any of those claims and many others they asserted, which would inevitably lead to heated discussions between my husband and I. To my ears, those claims sounded utterly absurd and wrong. As my husband started to listen to more and more messages, downloading more and more material, and acquiring more booklets, literature, revival books and "crystallization" books on the different books of the bible, which were "given" to him by his LC, I became more and more horrified! I don't understand why he can't "see" what is clear to me. I mean, I know why, but I just can't believe it sometimes! And when I've tried to engage him in conversation about it, he literally sounds just like them! The words, the cadence and pitch of his voice. He has no individual voice!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Dave, we've had the "cult" discussion here several times. It's one of those things everyone has an opinion about and it seems each one is valid.

For the record I think the LCM fits some of the definitions of a cult. But some think the term is so inflammatory that it is counter-productive. Sort of like calling a gay a "pervert." It seems to end discussions rather than start them.

Thanks for the caution bro Igzy. Dave hasn't been around that long, and doesn't know it's been discussed before. He's likely speaking from what he saw, experienced, and thinks about the local church. And he's only speaking what many exLCers have concluded about the local church.

And certainly sis boughtinChrist hasn't been around long enough to even hear the word cult even spoken of yet.

And why shouldn't she consider the possibility that her husband is caught in a cult? If it's a cult, it might help her to know what she's dealing with.

I'm not the only one that considers the LC a cult. Many exLCers that I know consider that they were in a cult, and apparently I can add Dave to the list.

And from even this distance from boughtinChrist's situation it looks like her husband is in a cult. I remember well how the church sought to distance us from our family and friends. I'm not saying the church wants to break her marriage up. But her husband sure seems to be cheating on her, with the church as his lover ... and she has her hooks in him. And just from her description it sounds like a cult.

And as far as I'm concerned, any, ANY, religious group that captures a spouse away should at least be suspected to be a cult.

[Cal]

I was just wanting to make sure Dave wasn't left wondering why no one picked up the conversation.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I was just wanting to make sure Dave wasn't left wondering why no one picked up the conversation.

I agree it's a touchy subject. I confess some trepidation talking about it.

I guess it matters most as to what boughtbyChrist thinks about it. It might not change anything for her.