Nothing New under the Sun

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

That's been my observation also. Whether you go to preach the gospel or to invite ones to receive the gospel, if 10 out of 10 receive salvation it's considered a lost cause if none of them are brought into the local church.

The focus is all wrong. Salvation should be first and foremost. Whether they come into the local church should not be a ulterior motive.

The LC certainly wants to see people get saved, but if they aren't willing to start reading ministry materials right away or switch to the RcV Bible, they are quick to move on to someone else.

As an interesting side note, I have noticed that BFA has started distributing WL books in addition to Bibles now. Maybe they should change their name to WLFA (Witness Lee for America). America needs God, not Witness Lee and his writings.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I have noticed that BFA has started distributing WL books in addition to Bibles now. Maybe they should change their name to WLFA (Witness Lee for America). America needs God, not Witness Lee and his writings.

To them, the Bible is just a means to get people into "the rich ministry of WL and WN". It's no surprise that WL books are crowding hard upon the Bible distribution process.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

To them, the Bible is just a means to get people into "the rich ministry of WL and WN". It's no surprise that WL books are crowding hard upon the Bible distribution process.

Soon BFA will stand for "Blendeds For America."

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by aron

To them, the Bible is just a means to get people into "the rich ministry of WL and WN". It's no surprise that WL books are crowding hard upon the Bible distribution process.

I shouldn't be surprised. I guess it was inevitable. You would think though that they would be happy distributing just a NT Testament littered with WL footnotes. They couldn't resist the urge to also distribute ministry books. They must think that everyone in the U.S. has been waiting their whole lives to receive one of Lee's books...

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I shouldn't be surprised. I guess it was inevitable. You would think though that they would be happy distributing just a NT Testament littered with WL footnotes. They couldn't resist the urge to also distribute ministry books. They must think that everyone in the U.S. has been waiting their whole lives to receive one of Lee's books...

The whole rest of Christianity has nothing that even compares to Witness Lee's ministry, don'tcha know that?

Wouldn't surprise me if it was LSM's intention all along to eventually expand from the RcV to other publications. Of course, they would probably claim that Bibles for America is not "part of" LSM, because it's registered as its own not-for-profit. Just like DCP is not "part of" LSM. Why the need to play these shell games? Seriously.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

The whole rest of Christianity has nothing that even compares to Witness Lee's ministry, don'tcha know that?

Wouldn't surprise me if it was LSM's intention all along to eventually expand from the RcV to other publications. Of course, they would probably claim that Bibles for America is not "part of" LSM, because it's registered as its own not-for-profit. Just like DCP is not "part of" LSM. Why the need to play these shell games? Seriously.

When it comes down to it, BFA has never really been about distrubiting Bibles for America. Groups like Gideons Int. were doing that long before BFA was conceived. The LC thinks their version is superior to all others and therefore, what needs to be distributed is not the Bible itself, but their interpretation of it. And now that applies to their ministry materials as well.

I vistited the BFA website. It shows some of the books they have to offer and it says: "Books by Watchman Nee and Witness Lee that help you progress in your Christian walk and grow in Christ." So apparently if some wants to grow in ther Christian walk, they needs a WN or WL book. They must think Bible itself is insufficient for that.

Also their website says they have now distributed 1.2 million Bibles(over a period of 10-15 years). The population of the US is estimated to be about 316 million. So .003% of the US has a RcV. Big deal, that isn't even a small dent. Whatever it is that they are trying to accomplish, it's not what their name implies. It's more like trying to find a few here and there to recruit to the LC.

Originally Posted by Freedom

Also their website says they have now distributed 1.2 million Bibles(over a period of 10-15 years). The population of the US is estimated to be about 316 million. So .003% of the US has a RcV. Big deal, that isn't even a small dent. Whatever it is that they are trying to accomplish, it's not what their name implies. It's more like trying to find a few here and there to recruit to the LC.

1.2 million copies of Bible among 316 million people is .3%, not .003%.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

1.2 million copies of Bible among 316 million people is .3%, not .003%.

Yes, thank you. Apparently I need to work on my math.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by aron

To them, the Bible is just a means to get people into "the rich ministry of WL and WN". It's no surprise that WL books are crowding hard upon the Bible distribution process.

WOW...that's exactly what the Mormons do. When their trainee 'elders' come to your door, they bring a kj bible. (A closer look has the LDS footnotes in it. It is NOT the same KJ found at your local Christian or non Mormon bookstore!)

The first scripture they quote is Amos:3:7. "When the Lord God decides to do something, he will first tell his servants, the prophets."

They use that scripture and 'the bible' to get you to read everything Joseph Smith wrote in the book of Mormon etc....

The LC uses the RcV so you can read Lee's works and to a lesser extent Nee's works. They use Watchman Nee's works to reel people in as well because a lot of Nee's books are sold in local bookstores from B&N to your local Christian bookstore. But you won't find the RcV or Lee's books other than in the LSM prison just like you won't find the Mormon's KJ bible or book of Mormon, plus outside their venue.

The LSM would NOT like it if an LCr would read the bible and Nee's works but leave out the RcV & Lee's works.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

WOW...that's exactly what the Mormons do. When their trainee 'elders' come to your door, they bring a kj bible. (A closer look has the LDS footnotes in it. It is NOT the same KJ found at your local Christian or non Mormon bookstore!)

The first scripture they quote is Amos:3:7. "When the Lord God decides to do something, he will first tell his servants, the prophets."

They use that scripture and 'the bible' to get you to read everything Joseph Smith wrote in the book of Mormon etc....

The LC uses the RcV so you can read Lee's works and to a lesser extent Nee's works. They use Watchman Nee's works to reel people in as well because a lot of Nee's books are sold in local bookstores from B&N to your local Christian bookstore. But you won't find the RcV or Lee's books other than in the LSM prison just like you won't find the Mormon's KJ bible or book of Mormon, plus outside their venue.

The LSM would NOT like it if an LCr would read the bible and Nee's works but leave out the RcV & Lee's works.

Didn't Witness Lee support the idea of door-knocking my pointing out that it works for the Jehovah's Witnesses (back in the 80's, I think)?

So it really wouldn't be surprising if they would borrow techniques from Mormon recruitment, as well.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

Didn't Witness Lee support the idea of door-knocking my pointing out that it works for the Jehovah's Witnesses (back in the 80's, I think)?

So it really wouldn't be surprising if they would borrow techniques from Mormon recruitment, as well.

Someone said that he knocked on thirty to forty doors and none of them opened, so immediately he was disheartened. But I would say that you should not be discouraged because according to our reports, on the average only one in fifty doors we knock on opens up... I also did a little research the door-knocking by the Mormons and the Jehovah Witnesses and found out that they get one open door only after knocking on hundreds and thousands of doors. Therefore, when you go door-knocking, you must have a proper attitude: An unopened door is not discouraging but rather a normal thing. You must be prepared that people are not going to open their doors. If everyone would open the door and were all predestinated by God, then would it be necessary for us to labor in this matter? I believe that God did not predestinate that many people...
The Revelation and Vision of God Ch 9

I do not even believe that the Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons have the best way of door-knocking. According to my study, we have a much better way.
A Word of Love Ch 1

There you have it. WL says that he "researched the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses practice of door-knocking. I find it interesting that despite his findings regarding its ineffectiveness, he went on to push it as the best way to gain people. In that second quote he says that "we have a much better way". I have to wonder to myself what way that is.

Last time I checked, whatever increase the LC has is not coming from the practice of door-knocking. I'm not even sure how many are still doing that. I know there is talk now and then about trying to get is started up again. I think though most realized that it's not worth the time. Of course, since WL said that this is the new way, there are always going to be saints who try to put these things into practice - and fail.

Secondly, WL said that only one in fifty doors opens up. Well if you ask me, that sounds like a complete and utter waste of time. No wonder people got discouraged when this was all going on.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Freedom

There you have it. WL says that he "researched the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses practice of door-knocking. I find it interesting that despite his findings regarding its ineffectiveness, he went on to push it as the best way to gain people. In that second quote he says that "we have a much better way". I have to wonder to myself what way that is.

Last time I checked, whatever increase the LC has is not coming from the practice of door-knocking. I'm not even sure how many are still doing that. I know there is talk now and then about trying to get is started up again. I think though most realized that it's not worth the time. Of course, since WL said that this is the new way, there are always going to be saints who try to put these things into practice - and fail.

Secondly, WL said that only one in fifty doors opens up. Well if you ask me, that sounds like a complete and utter waste of time. No wonder people got discouraged when this was all going on.

Did WL ever do any door knocking? I find it hard to believe he ever did but expected his sheeple to door knock. We did door knocking in the 1975/76 on Thursday nights as an invitation to the Saturday night gospel/love feasts. We usually went in 3s or 4s. Rarely in twos. PLUS... none of the leaders ever went door knocking so if there is talk of starting up door knocking again, rest assured the blendeds, the 'elders', the 'leading -ones-' won't be door knocking! (ugh. I hate the phrases 'these ones' or the 'leading ONES'. Why can't they just call them leaders or people? Leading ones?? What's that? ugh. )

Anyway. I am surprised anyone regardless of their 'product' goes door knocking anymore. I never open my door to anyone unless they call me before coming over...not in this day and age!

I was never fond of door knocking but felt ok to do it with several people back in the day.

I personally think door knocking is man made, not GOD made. I don't think the saints in the NT went 'door knocking'. The only person I know that knocked on a door was Peter and when it was opened, it was slammed on him!

It baffles and makes me that they don't give a damn about what has happened to their children (like Rayliotta and others), or about their spouses, or friends leaving the LC but they want to portray themselves as 'God's move on the earth today' when it's really about maintaining Lee's legacy not God's Love for ALL His children.

Jeremiah 29:29 (NIV) says God has plans for us (YOU and me) to prosper, Plans to give us HOPE and a Future.

What are His Plans for your life? Ask Him. Keep seeking Him and He will open the door, a DOOR that He will never shut ! (Rev 3:8 and 3:20)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

Anyway. I am surprised anyone regardless of their 'product' goes door knocking anymore. I never open my door to anyone unless they call me before coming over...not in this day and age!

That was the comment John So in Germany said when Door-Knocking was mandated. Knowing the German people, he commented that, "they will baptize you instead," possibly making reference to the drowning of Anabaptists back in the day.

John So's comments basically went "virule" (even before Al Gore invented the internet!) via the recovery grapevine, and Phillip Lee and Company immediately blackballed him for being negative to WL and the "New Way."